Where is the fucking justice for Trayvon Martin? a 17 year old INNOCENT CHILD shot to death simply because he was walking in his father's gated community.

[chewchewmeaw]

Why in gods hell has that MURDERER not been arrested?

Are they looking for riots? they will happen if Zimmerman is not brought to justice. I am so sickened by this.

I wouldn't be surprised if you haven't heard this story yet - very slow in reporting it.

He was begging for his life': Family's anger as police finally play 911 calls made by neighborhood watch captain who shot black teen

Trayvon Martin,17, was shot dead by George Zimmerman, 28, last month, who claims the killing was self defense and has not been charged
Police finally gave into mounting pressure on Friday and released eight 911 calls
The teen's family say the calls show Zimmerman was the 'aggressor' not Trayvon

The police have finally released the 911 calls made in relation to the killing of an unarmed black teenager who was shot by a white neighborhood watch captain.

George Zimmerman, 28, had called 911 to report a suspicious man and can be heard pursuing Trayvon Martin, 17, on foot against the dispatcher's advice causing the teen to run away.
Moments later the police are bombarded with calls from terrified neighbors as a voice in the background can be heard desperately screaming for help before the sound of two gun shots.
When police arrived at Florida's Retreat at Twin Lakes Townhomes they found Trayvon, who had been returning from a store with candy for his younger brother, had been shot dead by Zimmerman.
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Trayvon Martin, 17, left, was killed by George Zimmerman, 28, right, after the neighborhood watch captain pursued him as walked in a gated community

Zimmerman had called 911 after spotting the teen walking through the gated community.
'This guy looks like he is up to no good. He is on drugs or something,' Zimmerman told the dispatcher from his SUV.
He added that the black teen had his hand in his waistband and was walking around looking at homes.

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'These a---. They always get away,' Zimmerman said on a 911 call.
During Zimmerman's initial call, he told the dispatcher he was following Martin and the dispatcher told him, 'You don't need to do that.'
But Zimmerman sounds as if he continues to pursue the teen saying: 'He ran.'
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In Zimmerman's 911 call he said Martin, pictured, looked like he 'up to no good' and on drugs as the teen returned home with skittles for his brother
He then refuses to meet police officers at an agreed location and asks for them to call him on arrival instead so he can tell them where he is.
Sanford police officials, who have not charged Zimmerman after accepting his claim that his actions were in self defense, finally released eight 911 calls on Friday after mounting pressure.
Martin's family had demanded the release of the calls to help better understand how Martin died while walking home from a convenience store last month.
'He was yelling for help, and no one could help him. He saw his life being taken away from him,' the teen's father Tracy Martin said.
He said they will continue pushing for charges to be filed against Zimmerman.
'We?re hoping this doesn?t happen again to another family, and that America opens their eyes ... even though this won?t bring Trayvon back,
we don?t want there to be another Trayvon,' Mr Martin said.
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The teenager's parents; mother Sabrina Fulton, right, and father Tracy Martin, left, are said to be devastated after hearing the 911 calls of their son's last moments

Benjamin Crump, the attorney for Martin's family, said that the 911 calls show that the teenager spent the last few moments of his life terrified and Zimmerman should be charged
After listening to recordings of 911 calls, Martin's family said they're more convinced than ever that the Zimmerman should be charged with a crime.
'You hear a shot, a clear shot, then you hear a 17-year-old boy begging for his life,' said Natalie Jackson, the family attorney. 'Then you hear a second shot.'
The case has been turned over to the State Attorney's Office which can decide whether to file charges or present evidence to a grand jury.
Attorney Benjamin Crump, who is also representing the family, told reporters outside Sanford City Hall that Martin's parents both broke down and cried as they listened to the recordings.
'They are completely devastated, and they are in unbelievable grief,' Crump said. 'The last seconds of his life were in absolute fear.'
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Martin was visiting his father and stepmother in Sanford where they live at The Retreat at Twin Lakes, pictured, when he popped out to buy snacks for his younger brother
He added that a third witness has come forward saying it was the boy who was crying for help.
Martin's parents, Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton, previously sued to have the recordings released. A hearing for the case had been scheduled for Monday.
Moments after Zimmerman's initial call, dispatchers were bombarded by seven 911 calls from frantic neighbors describing a fight between two men, screaming and then a gunshot.
'There is somebody screaming outside,' one female caller said, as an unknown male voice can be heard crying in the background. Then a shot is heard.
A male caller described a physical altercation between Martin and the shooter.
'I just heard a shot right behind my house,' The caller said. 'They're wrestling right behind my porch. The guy is yelling 'Help.' I'm not going outside.'

By the time police officers arrived, unarmed Trayvon, who had been carrying Skittles and soda, was dead on the ground from a single gunshot
Another woman said a man in a 'white top' was on top Trayvon.
Earlier on Friday, Martin's parents called on the FBI to take over the investigation, saying they no longer trusted the Sanford police department.
Sanford police Sgt. David Morgenstern said the department stands by its investigation but welcomes help from any outside agency. FBI agent David Couvertier said the agency has been in contact with Sanford police and is monitoring the case.
'We are committed to having somebody review this to see if we made a mistake,' said Sanford Mayor Jeff Triplett. 'If we made missteps and there is something there, we will act accordingly'

Trayvon's family believe Zimmerman should be charged and brought to justice for shooting their young son
Several Sanford residents who spoke to The Associated Press said they think there would have been an arrest already if the shooter had been black and the deceased had been white.
They said blacks and whites in this city of 53,000 residents were pretty much in agreement that an injustice had been done with no one arrested, and that there was no racial divide in how the case is being perceived. The city is 57 percent white and 30 percent black.
Zimmerman's father delivered a letter to the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday, saying the way his son is being depicted in the media is cruel and misleading.
He also says his son has received death threats and moved out of his home. George Zimmerman is Hispanic and grew up in a multiracial family, the statement says.

Very good points about Azelle Rodney, Limited. I suppose the best one can say is at least it was acutal police officers pursuing him, not a wannabe cop member of the public - although that will be sod-all comfort to his family.

Whenever the police shoot someone dead, and claim 'he was reaching for his gun' and then it's proven there was no gun, or that the gun was in a locked box in the boot, or whatever, I always wonder whether anyone reminds armed officers a. we don't have the death penalty in this country any more and b. even if we did, it would be administered by a court of law, not police officers.

Police skulduggery being what it is, they never seem to be held to account. Even the bastard who killed poor Ian Tomlinson got away with it - it was only because a city type had videoed the killing and the recording was handed to The Guardian that any action was taken at all. Even though Harwood had a record of aggression, had been 'allowed' to resign to avoid disciplinary proceedings, and should never have been anywhere near poor Mr Tomlinson.

we don't have the death penalty in this country any more and b. even if we did, it would be administered by a court of law, not police officers.

Completely agree. And about Harwood too. I don't care what colour people are. It makes me weep.

There are some people attracted to the police force/armed services who just want a ruck and they disgrace the rest of the people in those jobs.

Surely you can weed at least some of them out.

Not just weed them out, but once weeded, keep them out rather than re-employing them, as in Harwood's case. FFS.

Meh

He was tried and found innocent. Case closed, of there was a strong enough case he would have been convicted

Both played their part in this tragedy

symfem a boy is dead and all you can contribute is 'meh'.

actually, that's the response black people expect from white people when one of our people is killed ...'meh'

Who mentioned colour

The guy was tried and found innocent. What is the problem. Would you like to see him convicted because he killed a black kid.

Forget the evidence, just look at the colour

Sorry the verdict wasn't what you hoped for, BUT a jury of his peers found him innocent

You mean a jury of white people decided it was justified to stalk a teenager after racially profiling him?

Well I'm afraid zimmerman wasn't being tried for stalking and racial profiling he was was tried for Second degree murder.

So you are saying a jury of white people aren't capable of delivering a fair verdict . Well done you are a racist.

(ps, one of the jury was black/Hispanic)

Racist for saying a jury of his peers shouldn't be so inclusive? Really? Would you feel the same if the jury was all male?

There's a reason the film 12 Angry Men will never be remade.

Oh, and there's an excellent summary up thread about how it's impossible to be racist to white people, but you can be prejudiced.

(ps, I'm white.)

Oh and my comment about the jury being white (one Hispanic white guy doesn't count as 'black' FWIW) was about your comment that Zimmerman was judged by a jury of his peers.

He wasn't.

The jury was all female wasn't it

I'm not sure why I would care if it was all male.

It seems you are saying a group of white people are incapable of dispensing justice, to a Hispanic man accused of murdering a black man

Again that's racist. Would you accept someone saying that about you.

The evidence was presented, the jury wasn't convinced, unless you know more than they do why should they convict. Because it was a white man killing a black
Man ?

There was fault on both sides of this argument and it's tragic, but ignoring justice to get the verdict you want is no solution.

So if it wasn't a jury of his peers, what was it

there isn't fault on both sides. a black teenager was stalked by a known racist thug and killed. as usual white people want to blame the black person for 'getting himself killed'.

it is sickening and frightening that in this day and age white people are so casual about black people's lives, nothing about us matters to you.

in your first post you just say 'meh' about the death of a young man now you pretend that you think it is 'tragic'

V good article in today's grauniad by Deborah Orr

How was he a known racist. What evidence is there of it ?

I didn't blame anyone did I ?

Let's review the facts

• Zimmerman saw the kid and followed him - wrong
• Zimmerman called the cops - right
• Zimmerman lost sight of the kid
• dispatcher said he could stop following him
• Zimmerman says ok
• trayvon confronts him - wrong
• trayvon repeatedly bangs his head against the pavement - wrong
• Zimmerman fearing for his life shoots him - right or wrong ? - debatable

Switch races and the same facts remain. You may console yourself with it being a racially motivated jury decision, because it didn't give the verdict you wanted, but there is not enough evidence to convict for second degree murder.

My meh clearly refers to the outrage over the jury decision, not the death, I clearly said the death was a tragedy, but Just because it was tragic, doesn't mean the jury should change its verdict, or appease racial communities by giving them the verdict they want

You forgot that he said okay and then followed him for four minute (most would feel threatened being followed that long), that most of his defense that it's okay to feel threatened by young black men for being young black men (that's racism). That he said it was God's plan and would do it again (showing he's disturbed - as if the child molestation charges, the restraining orders from previous partners, and being kicked out of college for being a danger weren't enough). That the prosecutor is under fire (possibly threw the case). That the American judicial system is built on racial disparity and is heavily corrupt (see the Cece Macdonald case, in the same state, where apparently a Black woman being chased and beated by NeoNazis isn't reason enough to defend yourself, see the American Supreme Court deciding it gets to decide how another nation defines it's citizens). That appeals happen all the time. That things are rarely clear cut and simple.

The evidence has been given repeatedly over this 16 page thread, if you're actually interested it's been posted (and there are plenty of search engines as well).

if you had read the thread before coming in boots first you would know what kind of person Zimmerman.
Zimmerman, with his loaded gun looking for trouble, continued to follow the boy even when he was told not to.

So we try people by their past and the " kind of person they are"

Afraid not, no judicial system worth it's salt ignores evidence ahead of, he was this type of person.

I wouldn't read this thread, the court transcripts and dispatch transcripts are the facts of the case. I will take information there rather than from emotional sources clouded by bias, hearsay and conjecture

So what evidence is there that he committed second degree murder ?

Funny people complaining that he racially profiled ( I believe he did), and then say look at the person HE is. Again jury has to work on the evidence, not prejudice.

No one is denying flaws in the US system, but citing other cases proves nothing, look at the case and say where there is evidence that Zimmerman launched an assault where the death of the victim was a distinct possibility.

Zimmerman went looking for trouble and killed a boy, he is pleased with his actions and would do it again knowing that he has the backing of the white judicial system in florida.

racial profiling is guessing/stereotyping people, saying that you should look at Zimmerman is using proof of his own actions and history to know what he is about.

stalking someone is intimidation by making them feel unsafe, or does that only count for some people?

Zimmerman was patrolling as part of neighbourhood watch

He went looking off trouble ? Evidence please. What unique insight do you have to his frame of mind

What do his accusations of child molestation have to do with anything.

Accusing the judicial system of bias is fair enough, now what evidence do you have that this trial was biased, other than it didn't deliver the result you want ?

Again the charge was second degree murder, is there enough proof for a conviction of this charge ?

Keep bringin race and snide remarks if you wish, but look at this without colour, which is what we all should strive for, and again, what proof is there that Zimmerman assaulted trayvnor in a manner which the death of the victim was a distinct possibility. Following someone in an estate ?

he had a loaded gun that he was itching to use. you don't carry weapons without wanting to use them. a nutcase like him should not have been in the neighbourhood watch. if there is a problem, it should be reported to the police for them to deal with. vigilante action is not needed.

WE CAN'T LOOK AT IT WITHOUT COLOUR AS ZIMMERMAN WOULD NOT HAVE FOLLOWED A WHITE YOUTH. HE IS REPORTED AS HAVING CALLED THE POLICE ON AN 8-10 YEAR OLD BLACK BOY BEFORE THIS KILLING. HE BROUGHT RACE INTO IT.

you carry on living in white fairy tale land as it suits you so much.

Sorry you understand the word evidence right

Carrying a weapon is not evidence. Many Americans carry a weapon regularly and most importantly legally. Zimmerman was one of thesE, he had a concealed weapon permit (is this a greater problem. Yes, but the trial wasn't "is gun ownership dangerous")

Did he draw the weapon before he was attacked?

Do you have any evidence that people who carry guns are itching to use them ?

Mr zimmerman made numerous reports to the police for people all of colours.

So back to original question once more, what actual evidence do you have that he should have been convicted of 2nd degree murder

I will ignore your last prejudicial statement, as I believe it is drawing a conclusion based on race, furthermore based on an assumption of race and is beneath discussion in the realm of sensible debate.

this has been covered before on this thread, go back and read the comments left by others. you are wasting my time and I am being silly by rising to the bait.

So you think Mumsnet is a good enough source that you should demand evidence from after 16 pages where people have taken the time to give evidence over and over? That we should rehash all of this just for you. What a special snowflake.

Trayvon was racially profiled for nothing other than being a black young man and that was used as part of the defense - that's racist. Zimmerman is not being profiled for being a Latino man. We're calling him on his actions. Previous actions are commonly used in court cases to prove a history of actions. Someone with a history of violence is likely have that brought up in court and given a more severe sentence - particularly in many areas of the States that have a three strikes policy. I mean seriously, if you can't see the difference in profiling a man for his skin colour and analysis of a man's history of actions, then you're beyond any help of a sensible discussion. But, I think you're just here to be antagonistic and your cries for evidence and a sensible debate - which have already been done in this thread - ring hollow since you refuse to engage with any (you seriously don't think there is a problem with the prosecution being federally investigated on throwing the case? That that might have an effect on things?).

I'm afraid that is rather childish, and you are being silly in your need to believe something because you want to.

I have asked a simple question, what evidence is there that he should be convicted of second degree murder ?

You have responded with insults, assumptions, accusations of prejudice. Not one shred of evidence mind you.

Which leads me to the conclusion that you have none. You want to see the guy convicted, and that's all the evidence you need.

I implore you to refuse jury duty if ever offered, that mindset is dangerous.

So quite simply, on the evidence provided to the jury could they find him Gullty of second degree murder beyond reasonable doubt ?