To think you should be able to sue your mum if you weren't breastfed

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and have suffered health consequences that could have been prevented by breastfeeding?

I tried bf. I lasted 10 days. There are other issues, but mostly I hated it and started to hate wanting to feed my DS. Marketing of formula would not have stopped me giving it to my DS. He's now a gorgeous chunky 5mo who's never had so much as a sniffle.

"Shagmundfreud, lots of people on here have expressed the opinion that formula marketing should be banned, that will never happen"

Of course it can happen here. If there is public pressure to make it happen.

It's happened in Norway - they have massively more restrictions on the advertising of formula than we do in the UK, effectively banning the sort of marketing of follow on formula we see here in Britain.

But then Norway has a bf rate of 98% at birth and 60% at 6 months, so this is a society which clearly values breastfeeding and wants to protect it.

"I think people formula feed because they want to and/or because they find bfing difficult."

Yes. And also because everywhere a pregnant or new mum looks she'll see advertising telling her what a fantastic product formula is - how similar it is to breast milk, how healthy it'll make her baby, how caring and responsible formula companies are. Page after page of advertising in pregnancy and baby magazines. Now full page ads in newspapers. Television sponsorship. Internet mums clubs. It's everywhere and the companies spend MILLIONS on it, which is part of the reason formula is so eye-wateringly expensive.

Formula and bottle feeding is completely ubiquitous in the UK. The companies work hard to create an feeling of trust and confidence and normality around their product, so that a mum feels it's a natural progression to 'move on' from breastfeeding onto bottles and powdered formula. Just part of being a mum and a baby.

It's all about creating a climate of normality around their product and riding on the back of breastfeeding promotion campaigns: big up breastfeeding, and then constantly imply that your product shares all the most important qualities.

The fact is that using formula ruins breastfeeding for many, many mums. Formula companies know this. The more they can encourage mums to feel that using formula is actually a good thing for their baby (which is what all that marketing does), and the more formula that's used by breastfeeding mothers, the more mothers will stop breastfeeding earlier than they'd planned. It's a biological fact: more formula = damage to breastfeeding.

Which of course is exactly what the companies want. It's tough for them to compete with a product which is:
safer
better
fresher
cheaper

And that's why they need to saturate the market with sophisticated marketing to convince women that formula is actually a really good thing.

"Ensuring there are proper support networks everywhere should result in mothers bfing for longer but I don't think that bfing rates will drastically improve."

In many parts of the UK more than one in four babies never gets a taste of breast milk. You can provide as much support for breastfeeding as you like, but as long as the youngest, poorest and least educated women in the UK (who are the most likely to ff from birth) think that formula is the normal way to feed a baby (and why shouldn't they, given the fact that it's in their face the whole time), then the most vulnerable babies will carry on being disadvantaged by being given a suboptimal diet from birth.

And if they can massively increase breastfeeding rates in Norway - they used to be as bad as they are here in the UK - then you can do it here too, if the will is there.

There has to be better support for breastfeeding, but we also need to have a cultural change that makes bottle feeding a less obvious choice for mothers here.

I bf my son until he was 14 months and he still got eczema.

Ok then shag I'm 21, live in a council flat and never went to college (but work full time as a pa)? Just a big fat cliche?? Your beginning to sound a bit prattish...

Just wanted to add on the 'my baby was ff and has never had so much as a sniffle' comments on this thread:

women use the same arguments (that their baby hasn't been disadvantaged by their choice) - always - to make themselves feel better about every single parenting choice they make, no matter how much research is out there flagging up the possible problems associated with that choice.

I have yet to meet a woman who has smoked in pregnancy who feels her habit has made the slightest difference to her child.

Why is it socially acceptable to use the argument that our child has thrived despite us making suboptimal choices for them in relation to their diet as newborns, but it's not tolerated in relation to smoking, drug taking and drinking in pregnancy?

Oh and for the record. I tried really hard to breast feed. In the ten days I did it I had latch checked ect and DS had his TT cut. But I just didn't think me being so so miserable and depressed was worth it. After I gave him his first bottle of formula he fell asleep for 3 hours! Woke up and didn't cry! I cryed I was do happy that he was happy!

"Ok then shag I'm 21, live in a council flat and never went to college (but work full time as a pa)? Just a big fat cliche?? Your beginning to sound a bit prattish.."

There's nothing prattish about pointing out that there is a STRONG social class, age and regional association with a failure to initiate breastfeeding.

And actually you can't talk sensibly about this subject (feeding choices) without acknowledging this truth.

Some people will always buck a trend. Doesn't mean the trend doesn't exist.

Well if you are trying to make me feel guilty it won't work. In an ideal world it would be amazing to see more women bf but I don't feel bad for MY choice for MY baby. He's happy I'm happy so nobody else should even bat an eyelid..

LST I'd just give it up, walk away from the thread, hide it and pretend you never saw it. I'm absolutely sure your son is lovely and gorgeous and healthy - as are my two who have never had a breast near their mouths.

(And I'm another sort of cliche - a Mumsnet cliche...older mum, further educated, affluent etc!!)

Sorry keep x posting.

Your basically saying thats why I'm ff???! But your wrong!

LST - when breastfeeding isn't working it's horrible for a mum and a baby.

But stopping breastfeeding shouldn't be the first and obvious answer for a mum who has started out thinking that she wants to breastfeed for more than a few days.

Most breastfeeding problems can be fixed with the right help. Most women who stop breastfeeding in the first few weeks would have been absolutely fine if they'd had this help.

I think I might proud it does get a bit tiresome going over and over your choice!

Just off to play with my breast mill deprived child who is ATM sucking a muslin square grunting

shag I'm sorry for snapping I have a bad neck. I did want to bf for longer. And I could have tried harder... But I suffer from arthritis and I had to stop my medication whilst I was pregnant. My joints were killing me and I thought that being able to pick my child up and feed him from a bottle was better than not picking him up at all. Plus my breast milk was probably pumped full of steroids so it wouldn't have done anyone other than a bodybuilder much good IMO

YABU.

It is not something you would be able to prove. The illnesses you talk about are mulit faceted. I have a friend who breast fed her children for a year each and two of them have allergies and constant ear infections. It is not a given that breast feeding will protect you and neither is it a given that breast feeding will not.

Why is it socially acceptable to use the argument that our child has thrived despite us making suboptimal choices for them in relation to their diet as newborns, but it's not tolerated in relation to smoking, drug taking and drinking in pregnancy? - because formula feed is not poison. Drugs ,tobacco and drink without doubt have a detrimental effect on your developing baby. Formuls feed is a pefectly viable alternative to breast milk.I don't think anyone would doubt it is second place to breast milk but it's not on anywhere near the same level as drugs,nictoine and alcohol .In fact how dare you even make the analogy.

Apart from anything else I would love to know how many of you with such strong feelings about BF actually apply the same stringent rules to your chidrens diet later on in life. Perhaps we should have a fruit shoot survey and see if there is a correlation between the BF and FF when the child is aged 5.Because of course all the parents who FF don't care about their childs diet so they will be force feeding their children Fruit shoots and McD's from 6 months onwards won't they.

shag you sound almost as bad as the op. comparing a life saving food to smoking, drinking and taking drugs is absolutely disgusting. Without the use of formula many babies would not be alive. Thanks for making vulnerable women feel so much better. You walk in a woman's shoes who has struggled to bf and sprout the same crap. As long as the baby is nourished breast or formula it does not matter one bit. Yes babies fed on formula can be just as healthy as breastfed babies , it's fact there are plenty of real life accounts. We are not all thick or sick

Trollopdollop I wish I'd of put it like that! It must be because I'm uneducated

I am pumping for the great majority of ds feeds with formula at night. It's hard work. Breast feeding is a skill not every mother and baby can do

shagmund so what you're actually suggesting is making woman scour for formula with lack of information about which type/dosage she ought to use, add to which the possibility she might substitute with another substance (e.g., goat milk) because you are so Hung up about bf?

That's insane.

Would you ban all advertising by medela? Would you ban jjmb from advertising nursing clothes?

Don't be utterly ridiculous.

In the time it's taken you to rant on this thread you couldve signed up to oxfam to feed children who are starving. Or you could've googled "how to retrain as a social worker". Your attitude is at best misguided, at worst ignorant and offensive.

Fight against child cruelty, neglect, abuse et al, but Ffs get a bloody grip about someone nipping in to boots to buy formula.

LST - we do the best we can based on what's possible for us at the time we're making these choices. You and me and all of us.

But I'm genuinely fascinated by the astonishing differences in bf rates between Norway and the UK and want to understand what's behind them. You read all the stories on this thread about tongue tie, pnd, impossible to latch babies, maternal ill health, mastitis, thrush, babies failing to thrive - all serious and obvious reasons why bf hasn't worked. And yet in Norway it seems that most mothers with these problems would continue to breast feed. What are they doing differently? And why do almost ALL mothers start bf there (98%) compared to only 76% in the UK?

I think as a society they must be less accepting of the view that widespread bf 'failure' is 1. Ok and 2. Pretty inevitable.

What comes across to me from threads like this is that the general view among mothers here is:

• That how a baby is fed doesn't actually really matter to him or her very much, no matter what the science says

• Only judgey people think it matters
• That the value of breastfeedingnisn't great enough to justify us caring very much that so many women stop early or have a bad time with it.

And to me that explains why there's such a profound inertia about our current low breastfeeding rates.

LST. You sound like you are doing a grand job.

As long as baby is fed it doesn't matter that much. Warmth and love and being cared for comes first surely. I know breast is best. But formula is a close second that obviously works. If you fed your babies yourself well done. But most women know the facts and still choose ff. like me and many others. The children grow up healthy and cared for. That should be the end of that.

I do take my hat off to Bf mothers though. I must be a lesser person not to persevere but my son is now happy and healthy. And that's all that matters to me.

I won't fit the cliche soon either. We're moving into our own home in the summer

No Alpine pony - information about safe use of formula should be available from health professionals.

Impartial, evidence based and independent information on the significant differences between the different brands of formual should also be available, so women can make an informed choice.

Just not shed loads of advertising material - which by its nature is not impartial or usually based on good quality evidence.

Oh - and some children in the uk will die this year from not getting breast milk.

And many more will be hospitalised or need gp care for infections which would have been prevented by breastfeeding.

So iit's not unreasonable to hold the view that bf promotion and support is important for uk mothers and babies too.

OXFAM's work is also important. Good for you for doing your bit!

Baby's die because they are not breast fed? You just don't stop do you.

There you go LST - you say it doesn't matter. As I said, many people in the uk share your view.

But I'm sure you can appreciate that people who have spent a lot of time reading the medical evidence relating to this issue often don't share this opinion, and that taking a stance that it DOES matter to babies in light of this evidence isn't a sign of bad character or judgeyness!