AIBU to think that WOHM's don't "do the same as SAHMs AND work too!"

[eppa]

Firstly this is not a WOHM bashing thread at all.

Its just that I'm a SAHM and have been offended and hurt by a couple of real life comments basically saying that I shouldn't complain as I'm only a SAHM and that WOHM have to do everything I do AND they manage to work as well.

I disagree with this because for me an average day includes: making and clearing up after three meals, going out to baby groups, park, docs appts, trying to think up and doing activities such as cooking and painting and reading AND trying to keep on top of the mess that having 2 children in the house all day entails.

However a WOHM would get DC up and dressed, drop them at nursery where they would get their 3 meals, do activities etc, pick them up and return to a house that was clean (or the same state as it was left in!).

Obviously both WOHMs and SAHMs work and they both work hard and WOHMs do parent when they are at home. Its just that I don't think its fair to claim that WOHMs somehow do more than SAHMS.

Sadly Eppa, quotes from Oliver James undermine credibility and add as much weight to an argument as quoting "She Who Must Not Be Named". Ditto Steve Biddulph, who seems to offer conflicting advice at times.

When I had my first child it was thought that breasfeeding increased IQ and weaning at 3 months was the way to go etc etc etc. Higher IQ was later explained by the demographics of mothers most likely to breastfeed and weaning is now advised at 6 months.

Allergies run in our family and based on advice re breastfeeding helping reduce the incidence allergies my SIL breastfed and couldn't understand why I didn't. I personally was sceptical about why the whole "runs in families = genetics" thing was supposedly able to be prevented by breastfeeding. one of her children has eczema and none of mine do.

Advice changes, when research is published the findings can later be explained as having different causes/outcomes to those initially put forward as reasonably formed conclusions.

What I'm trying to say is forget finding "experts" to back up your lifestyle choices as being the only right ones. They may the right choices for you and the right choices for you at this point in time. They will not be the right choices for everyone however, one size does not fit all when it comes to parenting. Instead be confident in your choice being right for you and you children at this stage in your lives. You may then achieve an inner contentment that prevents you from seeing offence and hurt where none was intended or confidence to think "I know person X may be implying that I have an easier life than them but I'm happy with my life and that's all that matters to me right now"

Oh and if you go back to work full-time when your children are older and still have a share of the housework/childcare to do on top, then you can voice a valid opinion on whether one lifestyle is harder than another.

It isn't all it is cracked up to be in Norway and Denmark...It should be about choice not taking one choice away.

I work 4 days a week, Dh works 3 days a week so I have a complete mixture of SAHM/WOHM in my life. I would say the 2 days when we both work and the DCs are in childcare (mixture of GPs and nursery so I still have to provide all the days food for DD2) are the hardest as I have to get them to where they need to be, get to work do a full days work, often including some travelling and get back in time to pick them up and get them home. The day I have off and am effectively a SAHM is great, i go to a playgroup, see friends with preschool DCs etc. The 2 days DH is a SAHD are the easiest though!

So in order:
WOHM with no SAHD - Hardest
SAHM - 2nd Hardest
WOHM with a SAHD - Easiest

Wordfactory - that's interesting what you say about Holland

My DP (who is Dutch) is AMAZED at how unreconstructed many British men are in terms of doing their fair share around the house (note I said many not all before I get pounced on!)

He thinks that household tasks and childcare areMUCH more evenly split in Holland than here and I am guessing that that would be a major factor in contributing to "happiness"

Judging by how many MNers are on here complaining about how little their OHs do, I reckon he's right!

Curry - I agree. Most people want balance in their life in order to feel emotionally healthy. Balance in all areas of their life - leisure time, work time (paid work and work in the home) hands on parenting, time as a couple etc

I have a girl and a boy. It seems entirely normal to me that as adults they both may want interesting careers/ professions, and that they may both want to be hands on parents, doing nappy changing, feeding the ducks etc. I am not raising them to have entirely different expectations out of life.

I would find it bizarre to have some pre conceived notion that my dd will see her career as less important, or that my ds will see his role as having to be sole provider.

Ultimately most people tend to pair up with someone of similar ability and educational status so it does not come as a surprise that many couples nowadays want to share things like earning caring

Earning and caring

curry when Britsh experts tried to unpick the data vis a vis the mental good health of Dutch women, two of the factors were the equal partnerhsip between parents. Dutch women expected to work. Dutch men expected to do half of all household tasks and childcare sorting. And then the lack of societal pressure about fashion and looks.

jellybeans have you lived in Norway or Denmark?

I second and applaud the post from TheQuietCricket above who has worded it much better than I could, what with the steam that has been pouring out of my ears and the red mist descending in front of my eyes while reading this thread. What arrangement works best for you, your children and your partnership (if you are in one) must be determined by you, taking all factors into account, at a given time. You are best placed to make that decision and your right to do is not something to be called into question. Make your choice, do not feel you have to defend it to others and please don't defend it by taking vicious swipes at those who has chosen differently and equating their choices to not loving or caring for children's wellebing sufficiently.

jellybeans care to expand?

There are many reasons why I am glad my OH is Dutch and his attitude to "housework" and by that I mean the work needed to keep the house running, is one of them

We don't even live together and I still reckon he does more around my house than most British live-in partners do!

I would like to see the governement showing that SAHPs are a valuble part of society.

Good parents are a valuable part of society, whether they SAH or WOH. I have not read anything on this thread or elsewhere to evidence the suggestion that SAHPs are more valuable in any way. I will readily acknowledge that there is a benefit to individual families having one SAHP, as it may reduce stress levels for both partners. I have seen nothing so far that persuades me of any significant benefit to society.

And for the record, I don't think WOHPs are inherently more valuable to society either, though some will be making significant contributions through their jobs.

As far as the "outcomes" for the children are concerned, the quality of the parenting is surely the most important factor.

Hear hear jinsai- it is about GOOD parenting, not whether someone works or stays at home.
I also think that while it may be true that for some families having a parent home alleviates stress, for others, the opposite may be true. As I said up thread, many families find it a less stressful option to both earn a reasonable amount of Money than to have one person having to chase promotions and work stupid hours to make up for the other partner giving up earning.

There are many different permutations to how things are done. It is only when people like the op insist that their o

Opinion is fact, and try to undermine other people's choices, that it becomes nasty

callmemrs

Just because the truth is unpalatable to you doesn't mean it is someone being nasty.
Children under three placed in daycare do not fare as well as children with SAHPs.
If you choose to have children and then you choose to put them in daycare you need to be aware of the consequences. Then it is up to you if you proceed to put them into daycare or shock horror look after your own children yourself.
Even the best daycare cannot offer the most important ingredient in looking after pre-school children which is love.

From "Firstly this is not a WOHM bashing thread at all" to
"Children under three placed in daycare do not fare as well as children with SAHPs" only took 29 pages.

Eppa you are now becoming downright offensive.

You stated earlier that you have a postgraduate qualification. They didn't teach you much about balance and reliability of sources did they?

If you are so insecure that it is vital to your self esteem to believe that we are damaging our children, frankly I don't give a damn, as I am confident that my children are and have always had the best of love and care. I won't waste my time producing actual factual evidence as you obviously will not read it and take it into account in seeking a balanced viewpoint of children's welfare. You are so blinkered that at this point I can only express my sorrow for the situation which you find yourself in and withdraw from posting until you get a grip.

I am sure plenty of other posters will offer you said grip.

Eppa I feel so sorry for you.

You feel so insecure about your choice that you decide the best form of defence is attack and spout that kind of spiteful nonsense about WOHP

The irony that you came on here because you were upset that someone had criticised your parenting choices, for you to then criticise others' choices is lost on you no doubt!

So, here's a question to answer. I'm a lone parent. I work FT to keep the roof over our heads. How do you square that in your cosy little world? My kids have never spent a single day "in daycare". What do you reckon their life chances are?

And yes, those are direct questions I'd like you to answer

Um, again, I think you may not be reading the actual studies. Firstly, suggesting that every child who is in daycare fares worse than they would at home is extrapolating beyond the data by some way. Which means talk of consequences, rather than, say, risk, is not really appropriate. Secondly, you need to specify what we are talking about in terms of outcomes.

For me, it's a bit like when there was a lot of hoo ha about children who used babywalkers walking late. And I thought well, if that's true thank goodness we had one, because my Dd walked at 9 months, and that was quite early enough.

Individual differences, see? And taking into account all the variables.

And maybe not getting your 'facts' from polemicists.

I think it's great when the op shows her true colours.

How bloody rude can someone be and how thoroughly oblivious to the real life situation that so many people find themselves in :(

Well OP, fingers crossed that life never bites you on the arse and puts you in a position where you have no choice but to go back to work and put your children in daycare. There are plenty of us who have ended up in that situation, and I feel pretty certain that our children have all had plenty of love, both at home and, shock horror, even from some of their childcare providers.

You said it Jins. Sigh.

Am going to open some and reflect on the damage I have done to DD3.

Op you are hilarious if this is for real. Get a grip!

eppa you are clearly a very frustrated individual.

You have placed yourself between a rock and a hard place. By insisting that child care is damaging to DC, yet not enjoying actually being a SAHM, you are ubder intolerable pressure.

Far betterto release that pressure, than seek to make others feel bad.

I mean, what's the point? What dod you gain?

LittleAlbert am joining you in a large but then I"m going to look up details of my nearest borstal. Only one way for all those daycare damaged children to go......oor DS- only 5 and I"ve broken him already.