to think that everyone should be forced to see homosexuals as equal......

[PosiePumblechook]

In every discussion regarding gay marriage, or marriage as I like to call it, there seems to be this crazy insistence that the church/mosque/Synagogue won't be forced to perform gay marriages.... It's still okay for them to condemn it too.

Why are people, some of which are not homophobic, still following a God that, at best, is homophobic?

The New Testament and Jesus didn't mention gays at all, I believe. Maybe Jesus considered it to be not worth getting in a flap about?

And as for Leviticus, he talked about it a bit, but he also spouted some other crap which conveniently is ignored.

Haven t had time to read whole thread, so apologies if this has already been mentioned, but Christopher Biggin ( gay and Christian) has imo a very balanced approach to the subject. Can 't do links but see You tube of him on Loose Women.
BTW I am a Catholic and actually would have no problem with gays being married in Church.

tuffie, will you write to the Archbishop and tell him so?

How can you call yourself a Catholic if you have no problem with gays being married in Church? Don't get me wrong, I am an atheist but I cannot logically see how a person who claims to be a Catholic is OK with homosexuality. I just cannot. It is against the Catholic faith.

The church needs to butt out tbh. I am a Christian and follow the teachings of Jesus. His greatest commandment was "Love one another as I have loved you". He didn't differentiate between man, woman, straight or gay. Only when people took over from Jesus did that come along.

I would care for and support anyone no matter what their sexuality and thoroughly enjoyed my cousin's civil ceremony and church blessing.

Our priest says that love is pure no matter who it is between.

You're right Ariel. Jesus was more concerned about looking after the poor and healing people than talking about homosexuality.

The passages in the OT and in fact also in the Pauline epistles refer to a distinctly different understanding of homosexuality than we think of as a committed gay relationship. When Paul referred to 'homosexual offenders' he was talking about men abusing temple slaves who were boys, child abuse in fact. Condemning this is pretty right on in my eyes. I do wish Christian people would use their minds to study context and etymologies before they made sweeping statements about what God thinks.

OP. Yanbu for thinking everyone should see homosexuals as equal. Of course they should. Everyone is equal. But yabu for thinking people should be forced to see this. Not going to happen - people cannot be forced into thinking a certain way, even if it becomes law, because there is always ignorance and prejudice around.

"Our priest says that love is pure no matter who it is between."

Really?

'The word of god is the word of god. It does not change with fashion,public opinion or changing social values.'

Fortunately that's not true or else men would routinely sell their daughters into slavery, people would be put to death for working on the sabbath and women would be bringing their blood stained sheets to court to prove their virginity.

Make it compulsory for EVERYBODY to have civil partnerships (for gay people) and marriage (for straight people) in a register office. That way, if they want to go and have a blessing in church or whatever institution is agreeable to a blessing -but this blessing would have zero legal standing- they can do so. Problem solved.

Yes seeker he says that the church have got things badly wrong and have done dreadful things in the past. He feels that love is a pure emotion and should be celebrated not condemned.

I wish there were more like him tbh, he says the church have basically backed themselves into a corner over all this and he has plenty to say about that (although not to the congregation at large but was very open about it after a glass or three of wine at my Mums one evening ).

He felt very called to be a priest, is very human and very very annoyed about the church's stance on this.

Let's hope his bishop never gets to hear about him.

Wamster - what Codandchops and mhd say. I follow Christ's teaching of love and tolerance to ALL. As someone posted upthread , it is tricky being a Catholic. I do believe that the Vatican needs to change.
But it is like being a member of ,for example, a political party in that you will never agree with eveything it says and does.
And yes IA, I do intend to write to the Archbishop.

That's really funny tuffie because although I am an atheist, I do see that Catholicism has no time for homosexuality (I could make a sick joke here but I won't) and therefore I don't expect the Catholic church to conduct gay weddings.

It's unrealistic to expect them to do so-it would be like expecting Margaret Thatcher to say that everybody was equal and worthy of the same respect.

When the Pope says that gay marriage is against god. I think: 'Yes, although I think religion to be rubbish, I understand why he takes the view he does given the beliefs of the Catholic church'.

The opening poster needs to grow up, I think. You cannot expect everybody to bend to your will and agree with you. I accept that as an atheist religions are never going to agree with me.

yabu, I find it really inbelievable that people are getting in a flap about this. If two people love it other and want to spend their lives together then who is anyone to tell them they can't flipping well get married?!!

I just don't get it, if anything the church should be encouraging this commitment between two people.

oops meant yANbu!!!

I think the Bishop might already know seeker, this priest is a friend of mine and I suspect he and the church might just part company in the future .
The other priest is equally frustrated but in a quieter way.

I went to church this morning ( C of E) and the sermon was about the evils of gay marriage as it wasn't a proper place in which to bring up kids.

I was so angry I almost walked out halfway through. Then when I got home burst in to tears of frustration at myself for not doing so (am emotional as BFeeding). I'm going to put in a complaint as this shouldn't be rammed down my throat or that of the congregation and its not particular Christian anyway.

I have posted about this on another head and will copy over what I wrote. I am disgusted about the letter read out in catholic churches around the country today. In my opinion, it backs up the disgusting views of the Head I the Scottish Catholic church earlier in the week. Here is what happened to me today.
"I feel very strongly about this. I consider myself Catholic, although not regularly practising, my children are in Catholic school. I am livid that this message has been put out in my name as a Catholic. I decided tonight to go to mass, to see if it was true that it would read out in every church in the county. The priest started to talk and say he was about to read out the statement and I couldn't help myself, I muttered under my breath that I couldn't listen to it ( I had read the letter online) I stood up, walked to the door and in a loutish voice ( I didnt shout but everyone could hear) "I am ashamed to be Catholic!" and then I left! I am in shock at my own behaviour but I was so angry that this has been allowed. The Catholic Chuch, by putting out this statement, have supported the bishop who said gay marriage was abhorrent and as immoral as slavery! I now need a stiff drink and a cigarette..."

*thread not head...bloody phone!

Also *loudish not loutish!

What makes me laugh about Catholicism is the Catholic priest/ young boy dynamic. Pure hypocracy or is this a stereotype?

Ye gods, sorry, but although I am an atheist, this outrage by some Catholics is making me roll my eyes- did you not realise that homophobia is a BIG part of the Catholic faith or something? Have you not realised this all these years?

If gay marriage is legalised then I think the Church of England should be forced to hold gay marriage ceremonies. If the CofE feels it's entitled to a privileged position in society then it should near the responsibilities that come with such privilege.

It would be welcome to disestablish itself if it thinks it's homophobia is more important than it's seats in the Lords.

Right, the religious institution I belong to does not believe that a marriage between two people of the same sex is a valid marriage. That is part of its dogma. It cannot therefore say, "because the law allows you to celebrate your life-long commitment in a civil setting ,we as a Church will also let you celebrate that ceremony here, in the sight of God" because all the waving of incence and mumbo-jumbo said over you will NOT make it a valid marriage (In this particular instance).

Just as if I went to my local synagogue and demanded to be married there... it's not going to happen: I'm not (technically) Jewish. I could scream and shout that it's unfair and in some way prejudiced, but as I am not a member of that congregation I can't be married there. Fair enough.

You cannot use a religious institution as you would a supermarket. If you do not believe in the fundamental beliefs of that religion/sect/ then you shouldn't want to marry there in a religious ceremony with all that that entails.

If all you care about are the photos and the naice building then you are marrying for the wrong reasons. If you truly care about and want to commit to your life-long hunny (but don't have any particualr set of religious beliefs) then do so in a civil ceremony rather than hypocritically having a religious ceremony that means nothing to you. And that means you, hetrosexuals as well.

I do not see how forcing religious institutions who do not believe that marriage is anything other than between a man and a woman to undertake wedding ceremonies that are fundamentally opposed to their beliefs and dogma is any different to demanding that Kosher butchers should sell pork. It's not saying you can't buy pork elsewhere, or that pork is in any way inferior to salt-beef; just that "our religion fundamentally believes that WE as Jews believe you as Non-jews should celebrate your love of bacon sarnies on crusty white bread with brown sauce somewhere else."

I suspect that the introduction of civil partnerships was a way to side-step this knotty theological problem. What we should be campaigning for is an end to the exclusivity of them and for them to be opened up to anyone (group/couple of any sex or gender) who wants one.