To want DH to take some paternity leave?

[Maffy]

My DH is entitled to paternity pay and leave, but says he cannot take any as he is too busy at work and is paid by results...

I am expecting DC2 and will have to have a CS within the week (due to problems and EMCS with DC1 2.5 years ago). I am scrabbling round for childcare for DC1 during the three days I expect to be in hospital, as DH says he needs to work for parts of those days, at least.

He didn't take any PL with DC1 and I just about coped, but I'm sure it will be harder with a toddler. I cannot really expect help from anyone else.

We are relatively lucky that we do not have a mortgage and could survive two weeks on SPP. AIBU to be annoyed and worried that I shall be be alone (usually 8am - 6pm) with two DC staight after leaving hospital for a CS?!

I would love some advice!

Oh, and he isn't a good Dad by any stretch of the imagination!!!

prizewinningpig good points. I can see that some men don't really want to be present at the birth and find full-time childcare hard if they don't normally do it but the only options are to muck in, rely on family or or pay someone to help. It's only the balance between those options that has changed over the years - 'do nothing' was never on the list.

LydiaWickham the remarkable thing is he must have had that conversation to some extent, already; 'you know that paternity leave I booked four months ago, well I don't think I'll be taking it', 'oh, does your wife have family coming to look after her', 'no, nobody, I just didn't think I'd bother, you know, there's always work to do isn't there, especially that really important contract I've been happy not to put a couple of extra hours a day into over the last couple of weeks'. Quite how that went and how come cover, or altered deadlines, hadn't already been arranged, if he is so indispensible, I'd be fascinated to know!

He may be a "super father" but he sounds a pretty rubbish husband to be honest.

He is going to leave you struggling with a toddler after major abdominal surgery to spend more time in the office!

I work in the City where people work long hours and there is a bit of a macho culture and yet the blokes do take paternity leave. So don't assume your DH is typical of men in general (I actually think your comment about men never understanding is really insulting to most men who do understand and care).

In the "old days" when men went back to work and looking after babies was an entirely female affair, according to my mum, you got to spend a whole week in the hospital after a normal delivery and two weeks after a c-section! Might have been a bit less for second timers, but my point is that back then before men had paternity leave, at least the mother did not have to look after the other children and keep the home running - she could rest up in the hospital and just have the new baby to look after.

That's not the case now. You will need him there to support him and it is utterly unreasonable of him to not take the leave. Even if you couldn't afford to just be on SSP, he could use his paid annual leave instead. Some men understand this point so well that they take their paternity leave and even extend it with a week or two of holiday afterwards! Because they actually want to spend time with their new baby and they want to support their partner. Yours is being a knob.

"Yours is being a knob."

Succinctly put

So he is adamant he won't help, yet also is stopping you from hiring in someone who will. Is he punishing you for being pregnant? Does he expect you to struggle on in a fairly impossible situation just to prove how successful you are, just as he sees himself as the successful breadwinner? Does he not have any feelings toward your child and unborn child? Most DHs want to have a chance to bond with the new born. What is he intending- give your new baby a cursory glance then go back to work? Is he always so emotionally cold?

He does not want a doula, which I was going to pay for myself!

Tough shit! If he's unable/unwilling to step up and you need help (which you obviously will) then do it your way.

I also think he's got even more of a bloody cheek expecting your mum to pick up the slack when she's obviously having a pretty hard time herself.

My dh couldn't take pl with ds1 or 2 as he is self employed so no work would mean no money, which we could have tried to budget for but ds1 was due the 15th Dec, but arrived on the 26th Nov and the company he subcontracts from had just stopped using all but him as sub contractors until after Christmas at the earliest so had he taken time off then, he probably wouldn't have had any work until Jan, which was a long time. With ds2 work had dried up throughout May so we had had little money coming in then so couldn't afford for him to have more unpaid leave. The compromise we reached was that I would stay at my parents while he was at work (nights as well) so they could help with the childcare. Your dh needs to work on a compromise and tbh if dh did get paid leave I would have pushed harder for him to take it, as I did with dd where dh did have a week off, then worked locally so he could take ds1 to school for the first week and was also able to come home should I need him too, I then had friends visit me and they helped out too. I managed because financially I had too, it was far from ideal as I would have preffered to be in my own home each time but it wasn't to be. Good luck OP.

Agree with everyone else posting that your DH is a twat.

However, I grew up with a dad like that and know from long heart-breaking conversations with my mum that you may feel that you can't actually force him to take paternity leave without causing even more problems. So here are my practical suggestions:

• hire the doula. It is grossly unfair that you would be paying for it yourself but better than not having one. I know this still may entail an argument but at least you are in control if you have booked and paid for her already.
• drop a few hints to friends about how lovely it would be to see them after the birth and try to sound a bit pitiful about DH not being around. Friends will hopefully pick up on that and rally round.
• take every bit of help offered by other people. IME people feel good about helping others and would not offer if they didn't mean it.
• do NOT feel guilty about bunging your toddler in front of the telly for hours on end. It will do no harm to DC1 but will benefit you enormously (and therefore both your DC)
• do the bare minimum to get through the day.

I confess I have never had a CS so I'm sure this is inadequate but you sound so worried about the effects on other people (your DC, your mum) and you also need to be thinking about yourself. Wishing you all the best for a non-stressful recovery. X

Has your DH actually said what he will do if you're in hospital for longer than three days? I was in a week after my cs, albeit an emergency one, but not too desperate circs iykwim - DD had jaundice.

Also agree with need instructions - I was lucky to have a fair bit of support even after Dh went back to work, but still did far too much and even 8 years later really regret not being more 'lazy' and focussing more on me and DD rather than everything/one else.

I agree with neeinstructions - you should make sure all your friends know he won't be about for the first couple of weeks and you won't have family around, I know I stayed away from friends who'd had their second DC for a few weeks as that's normally "family time" but if I had heard they were alone I'd go round and would happily help out.

Yes, OP's husband is being unreasonable but how great must OP be feeling with the responses from some of you. Pat yourselves on the back for 1) stating the blooming obvious and 2) making someone feel like crap for having dared to post about an errant husband.

OP's already defended him once; you can put your point across so that she gets the message without coming across as unbearably smug about the paragons you married - or banging on about 1950s like a stuck record.

I feel for the OP actually - it's hard when you don't have support. She maybe thought she'd get it here... that's a joke, isn't it?

OP "men never understand do they?" er, yes sorry they do. You seem to have very low expectations of him as a father "within his limitations" etc. Personally I would be telling him in no uncertain terms that he has to take a week off to look after HIS toddler, HIS baby and HIS wife but if thats really not going to work then you absolutely have to hire in some help whether he likes it or not. I recovered relatively well from 2 CS but could not have coped with the demands of the toddler for the first few weeks after DC2. Thank God for DP who did every single thing for DS just after DD was born and never assumed it would be otherwise

LyingWitch I do take your point about support but - the OP hasn't helped herself by not answering some basic questions about her husband's behaviour e.g. what happens to his annual leave, how he can object to her hiring help and, how someone who booked paternity leave and works moderate hours can be considered indispensible at work yet have no cover arranged. That is making her situation and the very one-dimensional husband portrayed, difficult to understand, so respond to more helpfully.

There is a very positive point to reinforcing the fact that most men do not behave like this - you can't address a problem until you acknowledge you have one - but she is excusing his behaviour. If she was to recognise just how unreasonable and how unusual her husband is being, she might start to challenge him and with that, we can help.

The bottom line is she needs practical help, everyone's said that and she's said she might book a doula, so not so very unsupportive.

Inhad no help after I had DD2 by planned c section. I had a three year old too. It was VERY hard. DH couldn't afford time off as he's self employed.

I lay on the sofa with the baby whilst DD1 wrecked the house. On DDs days at nursery I used to lean on the pram tp walk her over the road. Was very bad. You need help.

Your DH is def being a total knob. he sounds like he's bordering on delusional really.

But my jaw is on the floor that you would actually say "HE does not want a doula". Well of course he doesn't want one -- he doesn't fucking need one! YOU need one! Bollocks to him if he has another opinion, it's got nothing to do with him, after all he's absenting himself from your recovery altogether so why would his stupid opinion be taken into account??

lottiegb... Why on earth would she? OP hasn't come back to the thread. I wouldn't either if I felt raw. She already knows that this is wrong, she wouldn't have posted otherwise. Practical advice is always helpful, particularly from women who have different experiences and something new to add - but name-calling is pathetic and negates the support because the OP scuttles off. What's the point of that exactly? Are some posters so lacking in brain power that they would spend their time online - on the pretext of helping - to give somebody vulnerable a good slapping? Any way you slice it, it's cruel and these posters must be either stupid or spiteful, or maybe both.

I see this on the 'relationships' board too... it ought to be common sense to a respondent that if you call the OP's significant other names, you'll be diminishing the OP also, for choosing/staying with such a person.

I hope the smug posters feel a little chagrin next time they post themselves about unsupportive partners. I wouldn't be so rude as to remind them of their fantastic contributions to this thread but I'll smirk to myself, I expect... nobody's perfect.

OP, I wont add to the comments about your H, I have my own opinion but as Lying said that wont be of much help as I think you already know that he is being very unreasonable.

What I will say is that I had a planned CS withh DS2, DS1 was 2 and a half. My DP had 6 weeks off (mix of pat leave, annual leave and unpaid time off). I NEEDED the help, not wanted, needed it. Whether it was I just healed differently or not I dont know, but I literally could not move unless to go to the loo for about 4 days. Not so long but when you have a toddler its just not practical. What if your toddler has an accident and you need to get to him quickly? With me it wasnt a case of it twinging a bit, I honestly physically couldnt move very quickly (think hunched over in agony). Not only that but you must remember that each birth, even by CS, has a different healing process. I am still in pain 5 months on, you seemed to have been able to just get on with it after your first CS, but what if your second is like mine? You might not be able to just get on with things.

If your DH is unwilling to help can you ask friends / work colleagues / family / neighbours to call in on you? hire the doula (do they hang around afterwards?), or speak to your MW about that community help program they do (cant recall the name now). Infact tell your MW that you will be on your own, she will have some ideas for you I am sure (even if its speaking to your DH herself to tell him how important it is you have help).

This is also a slippery slope into PND, so make sure you keep a look out for the signs.

And you and your DH need to have a conversation I think. I'll be honest my view of DP would be changed forever if he had done something like this.

Maffy
Are you still around?

My DH works in a performance related pay kinda job, as do I. Massive reward, totally based on achievement. You know what? If you are good at your job, two weeks away will not ding your bonus, nor your earnings. If you use that as an excuse you are lying.

If you use that as an excuse you are saying a few extra grand is more important than the safety and health of your wife.

If you, op, then make excuses FOR him and suggest all men are clueless, then you are as messed up as he is. Your dc1 deserves better from you. Your dc2 deserves better from you. And you deserve better from your fuckwit husband.

Do not ask permission to pay for help in his absence, just hire it. He didn't ask you about missing paternity leave did he? He just told you? Treat him with the same lack of respect and just book a mothers help. Oh and don't pay for it yourself...he can do so with the fortune he is earning in that fortnight.

Lottie - You seem to be thinkiing the same as me

I had an EMCS with dd2 in December. I was doing housework and trying to lift things with in days of getting home. I was determined to be a 'proper mum'. As a result my wound opened up and became infected. I felt really crap. Don't do it.

Can you talk to your midwife and ask her to talk to your husband. It sounds like he simply doesn't understand the implications.

I would just go ahead and hire a doula. also: don't do the housework, don't cook and don't do anything until you are able to.

He is usually very good (within his limitations), but men never undertstand, do they?!
Uhhhhh. No, plenty of men understand. Yours, in particular, is being a selfish uncaring prat. When I fell pregnant my H saved all his leave so that he could take 6 weeks - not for me particularly, but because he really wanted to spend every possible second with his new baby. So, no, it's not 'men'.

He does hope to be at the birth
"Hope"?

Please show him this thread. It is unbelievable that he is not stepping up to take care of his existing child, his wife after a) childbirth b) major surgery and his newborn. Why is he having a child if cannot be arsed to be there? Sorry if that's harsh, but don't diminish how awful he's being by saying it's men. If he really cannot take time off, he should be make alternative arrangements.

Does he ever take time off for holidays? You know, relaxation? Or if he is sick? Yes? Thought so.

If this were my DH I'd give him an ultimatum...work or family.