To want DH to take some paternity leave?

[Maffy]

My DH is entitled to paternity pay and leave, but says he cannot take any as he is too busy at work and is paid by results...

I am expecting DC2 and will have to have a CS within the week (due to problems and EMCS with DC1 2.5 years ago). I am scrabbling round for childcare for DC1 during the three days I expect to be in hospital, as DH says he needs to work for parts of those days, at least.

He didn't take any PL with DC1 and I just about coped, but I'm sure it will be harder with a toddler. I cannot really expect help from anyone else.

We are relatively lucky that we do not have a mortgage and could survive two weeks on SPP. AIBU to be annoyed and worried that I shall be be alone (usually 8am - 6pm) with two DC staight after leaving hospital for a CS?!

I would love some advice!

YANBU at all. Not in the slightest.

When dd was born, DH had 2 days off work, although he was being rung all the time. It's a family firm and his older brother was at the time his "boss". He had returned the day after both his children were born, so there was an expectation that DH would do the same.

I was terribly unprepared for having a baby and floundered. We can't get that time back and I STILL feel pissed off, not with DH so much, but with the situation because it was horrible. And that was with just a newborn to look after, and no sibling/c section.

When DS1 was born, BIL had moved on and DH took 2 weeks paternity leave which was an absolute godsend. Same when DS2 was born. Bascially for those 2 weeks DH took over with the older 2 and I just dipped in and out as and when DS2 wasn't feeding/we weren't sleeping. It was great because I could catch up on sleep during the day, and I did all the nights for DS1 and DS2 because I moved into the nursery for as long as DH and was on paternity with ds1, and for longer with ds2.

I'd also like to add men understand, my DH understood, my DF understood, my DB understood and my DBIL understood (along with all female relatives). It's not because he's male that he doesn't get it. It is because he is an arse.

You could easily be in for longer than three days. Are you going to be ringing around for childcare from the hospital?

I was in for four nights and my husband was there every minute he was allowed - around 12 hours a day. Once I got home he did literally all the housework for ten days plus changing the baby and feeding her top ups when we had trouble BFing. He was devastated when he had to go back to work. This was with one baby and an uncomplicated EMCS. He most certainly understood. He would be ashamed to abdicate responsibility like this. (So would my dad who took leave when I was born 35 years ago.)

I don't normally post on these threads, especially when my own point of view has been so adequately said by posters before me but I think in this instance you need to hear this again and again as you are making decisions based on what you perceive to be a generalisation towards men and pregnancy.

This is your child together. Does he understand that? It isn't a case he's dropped his swimmers off and that's the end of it for him. For you to calmly accept this total lack of emotion and empathy towards this amazing event in both of your lives makes me genuinely pitiful towards you. He is depriving you of his support. Ok, my DH might not know the in's and out's of childbirth but he'd bloody well understand that if I had to undergo a major op I would need him there to do everything else for me and our DD so that I could recover, we are an equal partnership and that's how he would expect it to be.

Your life is so full already with your DC1 (I have a 2.6 yo DD and am 24 weeks pg so I do understand) and you're about to put your body through a massive shock with no support! Do you think DC1 is going to understand the waves of pain you'll be going through? How can you possibly think you'll be able to parent a toddler, a newborn and look after yourself adequately in this situation.

You'll need help. And that is something any other decent human being would understand most especially the person that vowed to be there in sickness and in health. He needs to get his head out of his arse and sort himself out.

*Please don't think DH is dreadful! He is usually very good (within his limitations), but men never undertstand, do they?!

He does hope to be at the birth, but mainly because he has been told to by his mother. MIL will be on holiday and cannot help, nor do we really have the sort of relationship where she would help out at home or take my side...

Perhaps it will be easier to put my foot down after the birth, but it would really get me down to see DC1 watching TV all day etc, and not try to do something!*

Is this 1952? Just read that first paragraph again OP.
And then to say that he 6hopes^ to be at the birth because his mother told him to???

Either put your foot down now, or get yourself a doula and possibly a new husband!

I'm quite shocked and upset, on your behalf, by this. Also rather insulted, on DP's behalf at your 'men never understand' line.

What is there to understand about someone who's had a serious operation needing to rest, so needing help with childcare? Would he expect a man who'd just had a heart operation (or even just something minor and possibly keyhole, like an appendectomy) to be doing a full-time, physically active job, the next day? That's beyond stupid.

DP is busy at work but booked his own two-weeks paternity leave, plus some holiday at Easter, which may or may not overlap. I'm not expecting to have a c-section. We are both looking forward to having a child together and both aware that we don't know how things are going to be afterwards and we will need some time to bond with the child and adjust. That, I think, is fairly normal.

I'd never have said my ex-husband was the most helpful of men. However, he expected to help by taking time off work when I brought the dcs home and I didn't have C-sections with either.

It was also 30 and 29 years ago respectively and even then, the idea that men "didn't understand" or had the sort of limitations that excused them being any use would have cut no ice either!

He may not be dreadful, OP, but he's about as much use as a catflap on a submarine.

Also, if you want a doula, get this sorted now. Do not, under any circumstances, keep it a secret from your DH. He should not be left under any illusion about the care that you'll need and which he seems so determined to avoid providing.

Actually, having thought further about this (and thanked my lucky stars I didn't fall in love with a tosser) my suggestion is this. Get your 'D'H to tell everyone at work that his much loved wife will be having a CSection on X date. And no, he won't be taking time off and that they will be no family or staff to look after her post operation. Even in the most male centric offices, he'll be quickly labeled "a complete cunt" or at best "too cheap to hire a maternity nurse" (the normal fall back for 'pressured men who can't take time off').

A little peer pressure should give him the wake up call you're not prepared to.

I find this thread incredibly depressing to read. All I can say is - your husband is a selfish twat and you are making excuses for his dreadful behaviour. Please grow a spine; being a martyr is a crap example to set for your children.

Yes, trust me, it will be harder with a toddler! dd was 2.9 when I had ds by elcs

I think you need to look him in the eye and ask him for the solutiuon then!
Tell him:

• I will not be able to drive
• I will not be able to walk far in first week, or push a pushchair
• I cannot lift DC1
• I cannot hoover, do laundry, cooking, shopping (well maybe .com but he will have to be there to unload it)
  "Right dh - you tell me who is going to do these things?"

Also it is highly possible you could be in hosp for longer than 3 days post cs. With dd (emcs) I was out on day 3 but ds had severe jaundice and we were both in for 8 days...

He has to sort out a back up plan - having a baby is 50% his responsibility - and you having the cs is a lot more than taking 50% of the work!

Also even if he is busy at work, it is not like he hasn't hads sufficient notice of this event! Crappy time management..?

I do think it would help our comprehension of your situation if you were able to answer some of the questions posed about your DH's approach and your attitude to him. e.g.

• If he is so dedicated to work, paid by results and not especially interested in family life, why is he normally out of the house only 8-6?

• If his objection to PL is that it is extra time off, why could he not take annual leave? Does he usually take his AL, or not? Is it already allocated for this year and if so to what, that you agreed was more important than his being around after the birth of your child?

• Why does he object to your hiring help, given that family and friends are not available and he has offered no other solution to a problem you say he acknowledges?

• How come someone who is 'paid by results' is happy to leave this problem unresolved at such short notice? Either he believes all domestic authority has been delegated to you, so you can act as necessary to address the issue, or he must feel quite frustrated at the lack of a solution, thus inclined to implement one himself.

I am seeing a 50s caricature of a husband - but they'd hire a nurse.

Any man (who doesn't get fully paid paternity leave) takes a financial hit on taking paternity leave. Your husband isn't really any different. If you've got the money to hire doulas (and you've been silent on the taking holiday point which makes me think he does take it as well) I doubt you're so desperate financially that the slightest drop will be catastrophic.

I struggle to see how he can say work is more important than being there for the birth of his child ("he hopes to" make it? WTF?) and then to help out at home (I had a c section with both children and yes, it's much harder with a toddler second time around - you know you overdid it last time. And you know, you really were on dangerous ground driving at a week (were you off all painkillers at that time?) - you may say you'd have done an emergency stop but you would have no doubt done yourself further injury doing so - and I bet any insurance company would try to wriggle out of covering you if you'd had an accident at a week post CS. Please, please, don't drive at a week this time).

Lottiebg, I agree, but in the 1950's they'd have had at least 10 days bed rest in hospital with midwives caring for the baby. The father would either care for the other children (yes, even my grandfather did this) or get someone else to (e.g. mum, MIL, neighbours). This is actually worse than the 1950's.

Email his boss, telll him that your DH will be taking 2weeks paternity leave from the day of your CS. Book him some annual leave within the first 6 months as well. Recovery from an elec CS is very easy, but you will feel generally very knackered with a baby and a toddler around.

It's a bit of an urban myth about driving. See your GP at 10 days, then practice a fake emergency stop in your drive (don't switch the engine on, just have a go at slamming the brakes and clutch). If you and your GP are happy, then you're fine to drive.

Don't enable his behaviour. Take control.

I predict you'll be separated within 2 years, when you realise that your "D"H provides nothing more than money to your relationship - and that you can manage financially without him.

Interesting that he applied for the paternity leave, thus is entitled to it at this stage. That suggests that, in a weak moment at least, he acknowledged that childcare was not entirely 'your department' and he might actually play an active role. Or was he just humouring you?

Mumseyblouse I agree. It's the getting home at six, claiming a terribly busy day, then not participating in childcare and housework that strikes me as particularly of the 50s. I'm seeing pipe, slippers, newspaper and whisky, while darling wife puts the child to bed and cooks supper. (Maybe I should stop watching so many B+W films!)

'Please don't think he's dreadful' - too late, OP. He is. These excuses about 'men just don't understand' and 'within his limits' don't wash. So he has limits that need to be respected, but yours (such as not being able to lift or drive after major surgery) don't?

DO NOT book childcare. Tell him he will be either doing it himself or finding someone to take his place. And don't be afraid to tell people about this. Shame and embarassment are probably your best weapons. I bet he wouldn't be so keen to argue the toss on this with someone outside the family, like a friend, relative or colleague, who would immediately see how stupid and self-serving he's being.

Oh, and book the doula. Who cares what he 'wants'? A, he doesn't care what you want, and B, he's not the one having the baby - he may not even be there!

The bit I don't get here is why, if he's not willing to take time off to support you himself, he's also hostile to the idea of you hiring a maternity nurse or similar to help you. Surely it's more than a bit unreasonable to insist that his wife should have to cope alone with a toddler and newborn baby after major abdominal surgery?

I would tell him it's his choice - he can take the time off work to look after his own children while you're recovering from surgery, or he can pay for a maternity nurse or similar for the first few weeks.

If he has the kind of high-flying career he seems to think he has, there should be no trouble affording that (though personally I doubt he has if he thinks being out from 8-6 is a long day!)

He really is a vile shit of an excuse for a man, isn't he? This is the way he treats his supposedly beloved wife at the most vulnerable time in her life? Nasty. Just nasty.

Nobodyspecial - a 34 inch head would be quite something!

Just to pick everyone up on the "Is this the 1950s?" comments. I was sorting through family papers recently and found lots of letters from my grandad announcing the births of his children. He was a labourer, so only paid for the days he worked, but he stayed at home for a good two or three weeks when each child was born and looked after the family. His boss came round and gave him some money on a couple of occasions, too! I was surprised and asked my DHs grandma about her experience and she said if a man was a 'good provider' he would save up wages through the pregnancy to allow this and it was pretty standard.

I remember reading an article about the top five regrets of the dying and for the men it was always that they weren't around enough when the kids were young. When our first arrived both my dad and fil told my husband they wished they spent more time with their kids as babies.

OP - ask you DH what he will remember on his death bed - the first few weeks of his second child's life or whatever he urgently has to do at work.

YANBU...but this is about so much more than paternity leave. You say he's a good Dad, but he appears to have no concern for you or your DC. The seperate money, and the fact that you work full time with hardly any childcare suggest that the paternity leave argument is a symptom of other issues.

Your H has a choice. Take paternity leave, or you have whichever paid help you feel is appropriate. Doula, nanny, cleaner, chauffeur...you choose and he arranges and pays. You'll need to grow a backbone and stop being a matyr for him to take you seriously though.

Another one gobsmacked.

OP, 'men' do understand - they are generally of the rather normal opinion that they're their children and the most important thing to happen in their lives and they actually look forward to enjoying that precious time as much as you!

'Arses' on the other hand seem to think differently, I fear you're married to one of this latter species.

Get a doula, booked for the birth and afterwards. Get to know her beforehand so that you feel comfy with her being at the birth.

If your H complains, you might want to ask him if his actual intention is to make as much effort as he can to deny you support and endanger your health through your second birth? Then tell him that as he's decided to absolve himself of his loving responsibilities for this event, it's now absolutely fuck all to do with him how the members of his probably at some point ex-family decide to deal with it.

You were ill for 15 months after your CS? I wasn't. I had my DH at my side, where they're supposed to be. I guess you know where you can lay the blame for your health problems. I hope you manage to arrange support so that you don't end up with worse this time thanks to your shit excuse for a husband and father.