Honest question regarding children and public transport

[Crisolate]

Is it really so wrong to expect a child to give up their seat on a packed bus or train? Conversely just because you have a ton of shopping and the bus is packed, should you expect someone to give up their seat for your child?

And by child I mean ages eight and up.

I have to admit I get fairly hacked off when a bus is packed and a parent has let their three kids all sit down when there are elderly people without a seat.

Also my brother is legally blind and parents seem to be happy to let him stand and cling onto a pole or hang by a strap while their children hang all over his guide dog.

I see children as one of the vulnerable groups who are more entitled to a seat than all able-bodied adults

Partially because they pay a reduced fare, when I was younger it was a condition of carriage that children should give up their seats for adults paying the full fare.

I am shocked you all manage to keep kids on seats, mine used to treat transport as a climbing frame :o

Overall though, on crowded transport, I want the kids sitting. Adults can look after themselves.

I remember when I was about 8 or 9 I had been on holiday with my Gran to Butlins and when we were coming home we had to wait about 5 hours before the train to ensure we got a seat. It was so bad that as we were getting on the train I fell down the side because of people pushing on! Anyways, just after the train had left a woman that came on late was ranting and raving about how ridiculous it was that kids were sitting and she had to stand.
Why should she have had more right to a seat? My seat was paid for as was any other childs on that train.
I agree that people including kids should get up if someone has a need for a seat but not if it's just an adult who feels entitled.
I actually stood up today to let a child sit!

In Brisbane, children (students etc) who pay student concessions have to give up their seats to full paying passengers if the buses, trains etc are full.

That seems reasonable to me.

As a child there was a sign on the bus saying that any child paying half price could not occupy a seat while an adult was standing.

It's good manners and IMHO reasonable that you pay half price you are lower priority for seating

Generally speaking children aren't paying for their own fare though are they? And in London all the pensioners get free travel, but no one is suggesting that they aren't allowed to sit down. I don't know about anywhere else, but in London there are no conditions attached to reduced travel for children and young people, and I don't remember any from when I was growing up.

My opinion is that small children should sit on a lap if the bus is full. Older children and anyone else able bodied should give up their seat if someone else needs it more than they do. Children should not be automatically booted out of seats by adults. If there was an accident children are more likely to be injured than an able bodied adult, and in general are more likely to get squashed or frightened on a crowded bus or train. My children are both pretty much adult sized now (over 5') so I don't think that they need any special privileges, but when they were younger and smaller I certainly prioritised them sitting over me.

Its probably more dangerous for a child to stand. I really don't think people who can reach the standing handles should expect to sit while a child who can't has to stand. If there is a sudden stop there's a far higher chance of the child tumbling and knocking into/over other people or even going through a windscreen.

There are two questions really, aren't there? Should people (adults or children) stand for the elderly/disabled/pregnant/struggling with small children and heavy bags and should children stand for able bodied adults.

And the only one anyone is disagreeing on is "should children stand for able bodied adults". It had never occured to me until reading this page that anyone might think they should, I'd always thought it obvious that an unencumbered, healthy twenty or thirty-something is the least priority case for sitting on public transport.

Round here, the unemployed and people on low incomes get very cheap subsidised public transport. Should the poor therefore stand for the rich?

The sign about children standing because they paid half fare makes sense when passengers are not like sardines.

Actually it becomes a live issue when you're thinking about people in their 50s and sprightly 60s - just as much a minefield as fat??/pregnant?? women. Those are the people who I wouldn't automatically give up my seat to, partly for fear of offence, but who might expect children to stand for them.
The people in their 20s and 30s probably wouldn't accept a seat from a child anyway unless they happen to have a hidden disability / temporary illness or are vile child haters who object to seeing children on their transport at all (very rare but they do exist).

minimisschief try standing on one leg and time how long you can do it. Now, same again but with your eyes shut. Now tell me that sight is not an intrinsic part of balance. (I'm sure blind people are better adapted at this than I am but still).

Not counting children with SN obviously I dont think its unreasonable for an older child (over 7) to stand and let somebody have their seats its Just manners and respectful imo , I used to sit them on my knee till they were old enough to offer a seat , They never really needed to be told to do it they just do it ,

I don't really understand the reasoning behind 'children don't pay full fare so they're not entitled to a seat'. They don't pay full fare because they don't earn wages. Pensioners don't pay a fare either, but no one would suggest that they give up their seat to an able-bodied adult. On trains, there are various discounts available for young people, families etc- should we go around asking fellow passengers whether they paid full price before we take a seat?

I honestly don't get it.

No, well the reality is that no-one pays for a seat. If we did there'd never be more people than seats, so problem solved. Even if you reserve a seat the reservation is at the train company's discretion and they sometimes fail to show them on the train, so there's no guarantee.

Sounds like there used to be signs about children giving up seats on some buses. I imagine those were really about social expectations but perhaps justified in terms of fare. Children giving way to adults because of lower fees does operate at many sports clubs though.

I'd see children giving up seats to able-bodied adults as very old-fashioned good manners, on a par with standing when an adult enters a room. Delightful but uncommon.

I really don't understand why a child who would still have to be in a car seat or booster seat in a car should be expected to stand on a bus with nothing to make sure they are safe!

It's completely bonkers and doesn't make sense. If the bus came to a halt the child would more than likely go flying and any adults standing would land on top. ( yet another accident I had as a child, I was bloody clumsy wasn't I!?).

I thougt adults were meant to protect children, not actively put them in danger for the sake of manners and a seat!

Very well put, SchrodingersMew.

hate to say it i often found those that grumble about not getting a seat will often just look pointly and hmmph

Foun d often enough when someone asks directly they jump up and this includes teens .

Ds2 will stand anyway and i always ave a seat with me anyway

I don't own a pram or buggy and manage my baby in sling and 3.5 year old on my knee if someone needing the seat gets on.

What I can't understand is why women with prams in the disabled bay park on the outside seat nearest and won't budge up for me who is carrying a backpack,a 7 month old in a sling and a micro scooter and ushering a small child, and I avoid peak hours, but still.

I had an awful exchange with one pram hun a while back when I asked if she could move along to the window seat....

I was always taught to give up my seat.

My children are 10 and 8 and they stand for adults anywhere there is limited seating.

schrodinger- that's a bus for you though isn't it.if you want booster seats and seatbelts you go by car.You pays your money and takes your choice!
I don't know wht you think your Dc are more valuable / important than an adult travelling on the bus!

It isnt about children being "more valuable", they get injured more easily. In that sense they are part of a vulnerable group.

I give up my seat for young children, if the bus driving was better, no sharp breaking etc, i wouldn't have to.

On one route, addicts are guaranteed to get on and sway all over the place. I had to tell one man to let go off a womans pram, because she felt to intimidated to.

I would rather an adult gave up their seat, than a child, to someone who needs it more, i don't see why they carn't.

I find that when I fall, I am more likely to injure myself than my DC are if they fall.

TheFallenMadonna - Would you like to willingly take the chance?

Dandelionss - why do you think you are more valuable than a child? And that's not the case at all, it just seems ridiculous to put a child at risk of harm for no good reason.

And btw, I am physically disabled, I have big problems with my joints and muscles and low blood pressure and high heartrate which causes me to get dizzy and I would still rather be in major discomfort standing so that a child doesn't have to.

Well I've never used a bus for 25 years so it's academicbut I don't think I am worth more or less than a child.I disagree that a child of 9 would be injured more than an adult, I think they would be injured less they are lighter and more flexible, I certainly know they would cause less injury to other passengers if they fell on them than an adult would.

IF BUS CRASHED OR had to break suddenly TBh a child could get hurt anyway ,
we are not talking about toddlers we are talking about children who are older able to stand and keep balance offering a seat to an adult who maybe elderly pregnant or just because ,
its nothing to do with children being less valuable its about manners , perhaps its an old fashioned thing to do but its a respectful thing to do imo , I would also move my child off a seat to let an adult sit down anywhere,