to consider dh being a sperm donor for close childless (gay) friends?

[Iloveautumn]

Canvassing opinions really to see if there is anything we haven't thought of and would love to hear from anyone who has experience of this.

Dh and I have 3 dc of our own (5, 3 and 1) and don't want any more.

I have been friends with one of the prospective mums for 23 years, she is married (civil partners) to her partner and they are v happy. They are both great with and love kids and we think they would make amazing parents. We don't have any ethical difficulties with gay parents.

They are considering ivf but it is prohibitively expensive for them to do more than one attempt which is unlikely to be successful given their ages (late 30s).

We have considered offering for dh to be a donor for a long time but just can't decide whether it is a bad idea or not.... They would be amazing parents but we just aren't sure whether it would be too weird for us, them, for our kids, for their kids....

Anyway, would appreciate any thoughts,TIA

Edith - I do know their reasoning but I don't want to talk any more about it on here. This thread is asking for views on our fathering someone else's child. It isn't asking for views on alternative options.

but he wouldn't be fathering someone else's child, he'd be fathering his child and not raising it. That's rather different - you have to be prepared for that, it would be cruel of you to try to stop him being involved in raising the child if he wants too once it's here because you didn't think that was the deal.

I think this could get very messy. It might not be that easy to be all removed and rational once the baby is actually here. Just be prepared that you have no idea how you will all react.

He will be fathering his fourth child, not that of "someone else".

Thank you for the clarification that you know their reasoning. When you have more knowledge than you post, it is easy to forget that readers see the bits that are rendered clearly illogical by the necessary alterations.

It's a bit like surrogacy in reverse type thing really. I couldn't get pregnant, friend could, little bit of pot filling and bobs your uncle.

obviously wasn't QUITE like that

It's all about openness, and I don't agree your dh would be/should be acting in anyway a "dad" to the child. He would be biological father without whom the child wouldn't be there, but the child wouldn't be there either if it wasn't wanted so much by your friends.

My dd couldn't be less interested in being mothered by my friend!! She's just a family friend who she wouldn't be here without.

And we see her 3 or so times a year, my DD doesn't love her (just asked her and she wants to know why I asked her such a weird question lol - she is 13) she's just a friend of mine.

I have said n here before, we made a book which details that mummy and daddy couldn't make a baby, X could so X and daddy mixed their sperm and egg and along you came. Read it to her and showed her all the photos of pregnancy and all of us together etc and it's just how it is.

One thing I just thought of is that my friend did say that if dh and I were to break up, it comforted her to know that unless I royally f'd up, that the baby would usually stay with mummy - how would you/dh feel if they split and the one you haven't known for so long got custody? This all happened with us some 15/16 yrs ago now as took a long time to actually happen so I am a bit sketchy on some details and possibly some details aren't quite politically correct now!

OP, DH asked me what I thought, along with the stuff I listed, he also has a heritable blood disorder, not majorly serious (it can be, but only if both parents are carriers, if you just have the one gene, it's manageable), not to mention serious cancer and alcoholism in his parents. I pointed out that although I chose him as the father of my children, that was out of love, if I saw his credentials on a file for sperm donors, I would no way consider him appropriate.

You might also want to look at this thread.

Despite some differences in circumstances, this scenario would be totally possible should your DH see and love his fourth child as much as his other three. Note the theme throughout the thread of "why didn't they just use an anonymous donor if they wanted a no-strings situation".

No way would I allow dh to do this.

He would be financially responsible if they ever went to the CSA, friendship can turn sour and I wouldn't want that thought that they can take money out of my family budget

I wind if you should look into the parental order set up?

Under the embryology act of 1984 at least one of the intended parents must be proving the gametes of the child.. . . Blah blah and as long as we were married, then we who had be, if granted the parental order, the legal parents for ever. Without the need for adoption. The birth mother gave up her rights freely.

I do think they may have changed the act in the last 13 yrs though, but it's a thought. The child will legally then be nothing at all to do with your dh, he relinquishes all rights irreversibly. You had to apply for it before the child was 6 Months old, and the other parent (non bio mother) had to have parental responsibility.

May be well out of date now though

If I was in the gay couple's position I would want an anonymous donor, so that me and my partner were the only parents to our child. I'd not feel entirely comfortable with the idea that our donor was maybe looking over our shoulders and judging how we parent. For all your good intentions, I think the urge to monitor how they parent would be very strong and difficult to resist.

You cannot say for sure that your dh will feel no bond. Your children might also want more from this than the other couple are comfortable giving. To do this, it has to be truly altruistic and you shouldn't be thinking of the child as a sibling to your own dc - the baby should belong solely to the couple you have donated to and they shouldn't feel any obligation to provide a sibling type relationship for your kids.

I can see this getting very messy and you losing the very friendship you are desperate to help.

QOD - thank you for providing your perspective - so your friend is your dd's bio mother? That is v similar to the scenario we are considering.

I am very interested to hear your dd's views - ie that she sees you as her mother and your friend is simply biological donor. I would envisage a scenario like yours where we were all always very open about how it all came to be and so the child/ren would always know that dh was a bio parent but not an actual parent.

But, then I suppose your situation is maybe quite different in that your dd has two mothers and you are her "real" mother, whereas this child would only have one father....

I do really appreciate everyone's posts, dh has read them too, it has been food for thought and we are feeling more negative about it now!!

Our main concern has always been the potential affects on our own children and we don't want to risk there being any problems for them.

Karmabeliever - yes and no re the sibling thing. I actually feel pretty strongly that if they chose to have a child by someone who already had children then they would have a responsibility both to their child and the existing children to let them have a sibling relationship....

On the sibling issue - there is a known problem where siblings who do not grow up together as siblings and then come to know each other as adults, can be sexually attracted to each other. I would not risk this happening with my children so I would want the children to grow up knowing each other as siblings.

Re the is bling thing, I think that's for siblings brought up TOTALLY apart and meeting later in life? Dd knows her bio half brother and always has. Not remotely interested in him though other than he comes as a package with A (bio mum). It's how you present it, she lived very close to us before and moved away when DD was about 2? Ish but we keep in good contact and she comes up and down to see her family and friends 3 times a year.

She does have photos of DD in her house, which doesn't bother me one iota

Bling hahahah should be sibling, damned iPad auto correct!! I see some stonkers in my previous posts too. Tsk, let me know if you need me to translate!! I think you still get the gist of it

Iloveautumn - from what you say, I get no sense that your friends have ever hinted in the remotest way that they have considered your husband being a potential biological father for their baby - is this true? If so (unless there are other circumstances you haven't mentioned that make you think they would be keen to accept if he offered), I think you're leaping to conclusions a bit here. We have friends in the same position - 40ish lesbian couple, civilly partnered, happy, solvent etc and dying for a baby, but no success with (terribly expensive) donor insemination.

But from conversations with them I know that they have never considered sperm donation from a friend as a possibility - they joke about not wanting a baby with X's temper or Y's hair, but I think they would find the idea of conceiving with a non-anonymous donor very creepy, even if they were very fond of the man in question. There's a bit difference between being fond of someone as a friend and considering him a suitable father for your baby, I suppose. I would certainly never assume they would find an offer from my partner anything other than weird.

Obviously, your case may be different - just a thought, though.

Partner & I would have loved to have had this option but went for anonymous donor cos we didn't have a suitable boy we both agreed on. A friend with his own family would have been great. It's not anonymous anyway - our DC's will know their donor at 18, and can trace half siblings too. We would have loved an 'uncle' type figure with us as parents. As your friends are in a CP they will legally be the parents & both on the both cert as such (mother & parent is the wording) and your DH will have no claim or responsibility as long as it's done properly- i.e. It's clear he's not having sex with anyone and you're using the donahion/syringe method and he signs something saying he's a donor not a parent. If they have a donor that gives much more options - they could try ovulation kits/ timing/ syringe at home for free or they could go to somewhere like The London's Women Clinic using your DH as a known donor for stimulated iui. ( they scan/ time everything precisely to give the bedt chance and do the syringe bit so there's deffo no come back on DH legally) and it costs a fraction of what ivf would.

Sorry to bang on about the sibling thing, but already you are imposing conditions/expectations on their parenting if they were to receive your dh's sperm. I'm not saying you are wrong in what you want, only that they might see it differently and want a donation that doesn't come with any obligations.

What else is likely to be really important to you wrt bringing up a child that you will want them to adhere to?

Really good friendships can fall apart because of different parenting ideals and those are the ones that don't even have vested interests. You cannot tell what kind of parents they will be until they are actually parents - they might not know themselves, at this point. The more I think about it, the more I think it could all go very wrong for you, even though the intention is lovely.

QOD - yes I think so - ie siblings who only meet as adults. I was responding to karmabeliever that there should be no expectation of sibling relationship between their dc and ours. I disagree with that.

Hardcheese - you may be right, but the only way to know that is to raise the issue with my friend and we do not want to do that until we are sure we would be willing to do it. We do not feel it would be fair to raise their hopes unnecessarily if they were interested and we decided it was not an option.

Stripesnotspots - thank you, your post was very helpful. I like your depiction of the "uncle" type figure - I think that is how we see it.

Karmabeliever - xpost.
I take your point, but we have children - they come first to us. We would have conditions in order to protect our children. If our friends did not want those conditions then they would not want dh as donor.

But yes, I think your last paragraph is pretty much where we are coming to. This thread has been really helpful for us both, thanks everyone. I think ultimately we would love to help but it is just too risky....

OP is your DH close to any of his relatives that may want a relationship with their niece/nephew/grandchild ect?

Most of the potential problems have been suggested on this thread,except one's completely out of control, such as the baby being disabled and the "parents" having problems, or the mothers death etc. Although they are very unlikely senarios, they still need to be discussed.

The laws and policies around situations, came into force because of the chaos and heartache caused by private arrangements.

I acually think that it would be easier if you were to break contact and allow adoption.

Autumn I know a few posters have mentioned the Stonewall booklet which is here - you should definitely give it a read as I'm concerned that many posters here have been giving incorrect information about a donor's legal rights as father in this kind of situation. It's not something you would need to worry about in this situation.

Possibly suggest this booklet to your friends as well, in case they also have some questions that need to be answered.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

Interesting that Dh wouldn't want any parental involvement and you don't think your friends would want him to anyway.

Will any of the adults in this scenario stop to consider what the child might want?

Will your DH be able to look his child in the eye and say 'no, I'm sorry, I may be your bio-father but I have no interest in being your dad.'

Just a thought.

EdithWeston I think what you are missing is that you have a significantly lower success rate with frozen sperm than fresh and if you get sperm via a clinic it will be frozen, hence why it makes sense to go for ivf using frozen sperm, but a more straightforward imsemination approach with fresh sperm.

OP I think it's lovely that you and your DH are considering this, though be prepared for your friends not to take you up on this.

HI OP you say that you have children and that they come first. this child will be your husbands so will he/she come first too? if so how and if not why not? Its easy to see it as just a sperm donation but it isnt. the hope is that the sperm will grow into a person. by thinking of it just as a sperm donation you are thinking of it like giving blood and it isnt. TBH i think this is fraught with problems. your children together might resent this other special child. what if something happens to the child's parents. would he/she come and live with you? there is just so much to consider really and whilst i can see the advantages as a woman of knowing who fathered my child and as a child knowing who my bio father is i just think the impact or potential impact on my family would be far to great or at least there is a risk of this. its good you are looking at this carefully but perhaps some discussions with other men who have done this, their partners and the half siblings would be more helpful.