To leave MumsNet because it's becoming RadFeministNet?

[SigmundaFraudina]

Had enough of their agenda being forced down my throat whether I want it or not. Major recruitment drive going on lately, and serious opression of other posters views. Just gets worse and worse. This was not what I believed MN was supposed to be about.

I'm off.

I know the difference and, yes, the whole thing paying for, whatever, I don't think should be legal.

Nitpickage all round.

I think the problem I have with these prescriptive models is, well, let's say a woman isn't particularly bothered by prostitution. She might not agree with it but hasn't given it much headspace - there are plenty of topics in the world I've never got round to thinking about. But she goes out into the community and does a lot of practical things which benefit women and women's rights. Someone who has boned up on feminism then apparently has the right to turn round and tell her she's not a feminist because she's not that interested in prostitution.

To me, that's just unfair. Also, I hate it when people are asking questions (myself included) and are hounded because they are asking questions. Sometimes I'm genuinely curious, I want to know why radical feminists think what they think but then I see something like "funfems" or "there's no point in even thinking about this" and I think well, why bother, I'll just continue not knowing anything about this particular subject.

I don't think it's anyone's job to educate me, but it is a discussion board and I don't think anyone needs to say there's no point in talking about something or that my views are somehow more frivolous than someone else's.

I'm not telling women what they should think. I am, however, saying that the are certain fundamental beliefs that it is impossible to uncouple from feminism. So, if you believe that women ever "ask" to be rape or beaten, then you are not a feminist. If you believe that the sex industry is not exploitative of women, then you are not a feminist.

I'm not saying you can't believe those things. Just that if you do, you aren't a feminist.

Where did I say it was all about me, Nyac? I thought we were trying to have a reasoned discussion, not get personal?

Also, you were just complaining about nitpicking. I have explained what I meant re prostitution/paying for sex. I think you'd find it hard to find anyone who thought it was the prostitutes who should be prosecuted on this thread tbh. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Catgirl where did I say you'd been critical of radical feminism. I said:

"You two seem to be strongest in your criticisms of the radical feminists on here"

I'm talking about your criticisms of actual people and I'm happy to go back and quote you, which I'll do shortly.

I won't be apologising.

You could answer my question in the meantime.

In YOUR opinion people who believe that are not feminists, seeker.

But last time I checked, you weren't the one who got to decide.

Nyac, you know when people talk about bullying and stuff. That's what you're doing. Catgirl doesn't have to answer any questions she doesn't want to.

I answered your question but you seem to have glossed over that because it hasn't fit in with what you want to think.

You claimed that because you agree with parts of radical feminism and not others that that demonstrated that it's not possible to classify radical feminism. You brought yourself into the argument YRC, not me.

The fact is that radical feminism as a consistent, coherent set of political beliefs, a set of beliefs that can be outlined in a brief description, does exist.

The other thing that really gets on my wick is this attitude that some are better feminists because of their beliefs. If you do x you are not a feminist, if you do y.

If you buy a mobile phone, you are supporting the civil war in Congo where rape is used as a weapon of war. If you buy a laptop, a computer or basically any electrical equipment.

Or can we just conveniently forget those things?

There is not one person here who is not complicit in this kind of shit. And you can sit and talk about how bad porn is all you like, and God knows I'll sit and talk about that stuff too, but you can get off your high horse and admit that you fuck stuff up for other women too.

WTAF Nyac?

I critisced bearcrumble for calling another woman a moron. I have no idea if she is a radical feminist or not. It is totally irrelevant. I have not been critical of radical feminist individually and more that I have been critical of Libras individually. I have no idea what your point is. I don't think you do either.

No I don't think paying for sex should be legal. Again - I totally fail to see the relevance.

Your arguments are entirely circular nyac. I really don't know where you think I said radical feminism as a belief system doesn't exist.

any more than , not and more than

typing and breastfeeding

This is moving too fast for me so I will bow out - but just to answer you, manatee - what I mean is, I think radical feminists are pretty positive about sex.

A long time ago, in a thread far, far away, dittany said "Calling other women stupid is sexist, not feminist."

Just saying...

seeker - I don't disagree with you. But I do sometimes see a situation where a poster might say

"I don't think it is sensible for a woman to walk home, alone through a rough area at night"

and then some people will automatically equate that with saying women deserve to be raped or are culpable. Any many people are horrifed to have that accusation thrown at them by other women and if that is the only exposure to "feminism" they get it is no wonder they decide it is not for them and try to avoid it on MN. Which is very sad and wrong.

I'm not telling women what they should think.

But....

if you believe that women ever "ask" to be rape or beaten, then you are not a feminist. If you believe that the sex industry is not exploitative of women, then you are not a feminist

Priceless....

Exactly manatee

Jericho - just to muddle things even further, this separatist lesbian feminist housemate of mine was very into BDSM...

"I really don't know where you think I said radical feminism as a belief system doesn't exist."

That's not what I said you said. You said radical feminism can't be summarised in brief. It can. There we go.

"A long time ago, in a thread far, far away, dittany said "Calling other women stupid is sexist, not feminist."

Just saying..."

Why?

IIRC, selling your own body for sex in the UK is legal, soliciting for sex on the streets isn't, selling someone else's body for sex is illegal, cruising for sex is illegal

Good for her.

It's something I'll make up my own mind on.

Maybe if we were all happy to do that there'd be less bunfighting about it all?

Come on whatmeworry own up, you're Richard Littlejohn aren't you?

Then I have no idea what half your points are Nyac, sorry. They don't seem to be getting us anywhere anyway.

Essentially, as long as it's all kept off the street, it's legal, Abs. And things like trafficking or forceare obviously illegal.

I think we might be getting somewhere. Radical feminism, it seems, has a clear and cogent worldview that can be briefly summarised.

If you don't hold those views, you're probably not a radical feminist.

The key qualifier here is 'radical'. You could well still be a feminist, just with a set of beliefs that are closer to the liberal, sex-positive or some other variety of feminism.

It's completely fair enough to tell someone they aren't a radical feminist if they espouse a view that isn't consistent with its clear, cogent worldview; just as long as we don't leap straight from that to the conclusion that they're not any kind of feminist at all.

I don't know why we have to tell anyone they're not a feminist at all. I don't know why we're so desperate to classify anyone.

I actually find it almost quite laughable. Surely all this stratifying and classifying is an entirely patriarchal thing to do.