To leave MumsNet because it's becoming RadFeministNet?

[SigmundaFraudina]

Had enough of their agenda being forced down my throat whether I want it or not. Major recruitment drive going on lately, and serious opression of other posters views. Just gets worse and worse. This was not what I believed MN was supposed to be about.

I'm off.

Funfems is a bit of a damning term and I don't many sex-positive feminists would agree that they want to "fuck their way to freedom".

Sex-positive feminism is another huge umbrella where some wholeheartedly embrace porn and others don't like it but are comfortable with heteronormal sexuality.

Equally I don't think you can classify radical and liberal feminism so easily. Personally I'd love to completely destroy the entire system and start again but that is pretty much impossible on a practical level.

Gosh fucking your way to freedom sounds a lot of fun.

What a pity it doesn't work.

I'm just delurking to say I've been reading this thread with interest, and think Thistledew has made some brilliantly cogent posts here. Thank you.

I don't think the sex-positive lesbian separatist I used to live with would have taken kindly to being described as a 'funfem'

You have misunderstood me thistle

I was refering to people saying "This woman is not a feminist because she does not think x, or she does think y". Not "that view is not a feminist one", which is entirely different.

Nor am I in anyway implying there is a borg like collective. I am saying there are certain posters who feel there should be one as they are convinved there is one perfect view of feminism and that it is their one.

Do you want freedom from men though yellowraincoat? That has to go hand in hand with smashing the system for someone's politics to be classified as radical feminism.

Also I think I just did classify them that easily (and accurately). So clearly it is possible.

Anyway hands up here who thinks that paying for sex should be legal. I think that will pretty much clear up which side of the argument everybody is on, despite all the attempts at obfuscation.

Yellowraincoat? Catgirl? You two seem to be strongest in your criticisms of the radical feminists on here, after SigmundFraud and we already know her position.

Which side of what argument, Nyac?

All the radical feminists I've ever heard of were positive about sex. None of them wanted to condone porn, though.

yellow, can you explain what exactly is 'damning' about 'funfems'? If it's the implication they're not serious enough - why not get back and say you think you are serious?

I think you're reacting to the feeling of being disagreed with, rather than the terminology used.

Nyac - could you possibly find me a post where I have critised radical feminists please?

Wikipedia summary of sex-positive feminist thought here - the 'funfems' seem to have been a bit under-represented so far on this thread, so have linked in the interests of informed discussion.

We live in a rape culture where women are socialised to apologise for taking up space on a tube or for needing to sit down on a bus in their third trimester

Thats from farther upthread, but I think it encapsulates the MN Feministas belief system quite well. That is pretty hardline RadFem IMO.

If you argue it's an erroneous viewpoint you are of course logically therefore a rape apologist, given the starting belief set.

Could you answer the question please catgirl.

nyac paying for sex is legal. Maybe some people get confused because in America it is illegal and many people seem to get their view of the law from watching American TV programmes.

Nyac, I don't think prostitution should be legal actually.

So your classification has just fallen on its arse.

I can sit here and say "everyone who live in London is an idiot", it doesn't mean it's true. Just because you can say something doesn't mean it's actually true you know.

I read the question as, do you think paying for sex should be legal.
It's a reasonable question whether you are in a country where it is currently legal or not.

I suppose I need to word it more carefully. I'd forgotten about the opportunities for nitpicking. I thought it was fairly straightforward what I meant.

But for the nitipickers, hands up here who thinks that paying for sex should continue to be legal, as opposed to our legal system say taking on the Nordic model where people who pay for sex are prosecuted.

And nyac I wasn't trying to say I was a radical feminist (not sure where you got that from.) If anything you've proven my point, because I agree with some aspects of radical feminism and not others. That's why it's impossible to classify.

Freedom from men? Every woman wants freedom, I'd imagine.

yellowraincoat that is a different answer.

criminalising paying for sex, and criminalising prostitution, are different things. One criminalises the punter and the other the prostitute.

No nyac

You have ascribed views to me I have not aired. That is why I find you frustrating to deal with.

You have just stated on this thread that I have been critical of radical feminism.

Unless you either a) find me a post on this thread where I have done that or

b) admit that you just made that up and apologise

I am not going to answer any questions for you.

punter? purchaser. not sure of the terminology. You know what I mean!

Jericho - personally I find the arguments I've seen around sex-positive feminism interesting, even if I don't agree with all of it, and think 'funfem' does suggest something frivolous and somehow lesser.

I asked you if you think paying for sex should be legal YRC. Not prostitution per se. Poeple (mainly women) who were prostituted under this particular system would not be criminalised for it. Do you think that's a good idea? Great if you do.

Nyac

You either need to apologies to me and retract your statement or find a post where I have been critical of radical feminisim

apologise

"And nyac I wasn't trying to say I was a radical feminist (not sure where you got that from.) If anything you've proven my point, because I agree with some aspects of radical feminism and not others. That's why it's impossible to classify."

Hardly, just because you don't have views that fit one type of feminism doesn't mean that those types of feminism don't exist. It's not all about you you know. Radical feminism does exist and it's been very successful both in the creation of a coherent theory that reflects reality and also consistent effective activism, mainly in the sphere of combating male violence towards women.