To leave MumsNet because it's becoming RadFeministNet?

[SigmundaFraudina]

Had enough of their agenda being forced down my throat whether I want it or not. Major recruitment drive going on lately, and serious opression of other posters views. Just gets worse and worse. This was not what I believed MN was supposed to be about.

I'm off.

Presumably out of their depth in that something is being talked about (like a book or a bit of research) that they're not familiar with. Like if a load of people were talking about the fourth Twilight novel, I wouldn't know what they were on about.

At about what time did the original thread in chat finish? I can't see it.

The high standard of debate was always MN's USP though. There are still areas of the site where you see it. Not often in AIBU though, right enough. I'm not convinced that equates to flowery language though, innit.

"Because a RadFem personally upset me in RL, because on here they shout down or belittle anybody who stands in their way, because they accuse me of not being able to think for myself due to being culturally conditioned by the patriarchy, because they wind me up no end with their narrow minded views and their steadfast refusal to consider that any other life choice is wrong."

1. If a radfem upset you in real life take it up with her. Stop trying to shut down the rad fems here

1. You accused us of being close-minded and dogmatic. You can't hold yourself to one standard (free to say what you like about people) and then get upset when people do it back to you.

1. If you don't like what people are saying or it winds you up, ignore them. They've got a right to their opinions.

Rad fems aren't starting threads about the prostitution defenders and saying how awful they all are and how narrow minded they are and how they try and shut down everybody else's opinions, although it would be quite easy. Think about why that is. Perhaps because we're more tolerant of other points of view than you are.

Ciao then.

Jamaican friend of mine, v. strong black feminist, R, is best friends with Loveday(not me) and Loveday's uncle is Jon Snow presenter, who is interviewing MA that day. R and Loveday are desperate t omeet her but JS says no because of security/passes etc. at the studio.
JS meets Maya off the train at Euston and Maya says she feels too tired t odo a studio interview (bright lights etc) so JS offers his big kitchen as a place instead.

They relocate to JS's home and do the interview, miles behind schedule, so that by the time R and Loveday turn up at his house, Maya is still there.

R and Loveday burst into the back door, expecting only JS's impressions and story about how the interview went. They are met with Maya Angelou sat in a big chair in the kitchen. Maya raises a hand and says "Hi girls! So pleased to meet you. Jon has told me all about both of you."

They crumple. She gives them her scarf and a ring to remember her by. They spend 1 hour drinking her in. Apparently she oozed life through every pore. (R's words).

This was some years ago but R remembers it like yesterday. I spoke with her today and so hence my namechange - it's such a good story.

Mmm the standard of debate on NM is pretty good but I don't think its more challenging intellectually on any particular section. Nor to I think that linking or refering to random bits of research makes for a good argument. There's research to support pretty much any view one wishes to take and we can all use Google. I would agree the fem boards are challenging in that there is a comomonality within the views on there and it can be hard to raise a different view, but if you went on a socialism board you'd find the same. I don't think its feeling out of their depth that's the reason so many women sadly feel unwelcome on a feminist board on a mainly female website. Which when you think about it is a pretty bad state of affairs.

I think sometimes, people come over to the FWR boards and feel out of their depth and get resentful because they feel it's our fault.

No, I dont think thats quite it... I think rude, dogmatic and blinkered would be more close to the mark.

But YABU OP, the MN Radfems are a fairly small albeit noisy coven clique and have as much right to spout their shit as any of us. Besides, they arecso OTT they are a parody of themselves...

M reading Maya Angelou's biographies right now for my Black History Month and #readingonlybookswrittenbywomen thing.

See? You couldn't make it up....

I think lots of women feel welcome on the Feminist boards, I think a lot of people are neutral, and quite a few can't stand them. It's not surprising, it's a political space, so there are bound to be strong feelings around it.

I agree that it's not feeling out of their depth that makes some women feel "unwelcome" there either catgirl. I reckon it's the fact that there is implacable opposition to the porn and prostitution industries from a lot of feminists on Mumsnet, and people who support those industries and want them to be legal, and for it to be fine for men to be able to buy women's bodies find it very difficult to make headway there. So some of them get furious.

Bloody hell that's rude. And you're having a go at rad fems for supposedly being meanies

< laughs >

Well it's no worse than anything I've had to indure the last week. I was accused by this bunch, and it is the same little group, of, amoungst many things, of being a visitor to prostitutes and LDCs and a mysoginist. Because I don't agree in such black and white terms.

It's rarely a debate. It's a kicking.

And it's the same silencing techniques they complain so strongly about in men.

It's not their views I disagre with, it's the fact they appear to display the same awful behaviour they see in the male sphere.

Being against male violence in all its forms, which is the fundamental tenet of radical feminism whatmeworry, isn't spouting shit, it's a principled stand.

I don't think the point of linking to research is to make an argument. The point of linking to research is because it is interesting and other people will want to read it and discuss it with the person who linked to it.

I am sure people can google and find bits of research, but it is more useful to get links to something somebody else has already read and found to be interesting, and who is then prepared to discuss it with you.

I haven't read any feminist books and I can get the jist of what is discussed on here re feminism.

My feeling is that the outwardly feminist posters don't tell others what they want to hear and that upsets them. But it's not the feminists job to make others feel validated by agreeing with them or giving equal weight to all views. Not all opinions are equal, although they can all be expressed equally.

"they appear to display the same awful behaviour they see in the male sphere"

What you mean like rape, sexual exploitation, widespread child abuse, wife-beating, forced marriage, FGM? They must be a horrible bunch then.

Maybe folks are taking what's just a message board waaaaaaaaaaaay too seriously.

Put down the mouse. Have some Horlicks. Stroke the cat. Let it go.

Dramatic flounces are so self-indulgent. If you're gonna go, just get the hell outa Dodge and leave the rest of us to get on with discussion.

Ta very much!

I think if you did a little straw poll you'd find that not to be the case nyac. Although do take your point about the fact the views are implaccable frustrating people. There really is no point discussing things with people who are not prepared to examine thier own views and look at things from a different angle. People can see that as dogma and rather unintellegent. I am not saying the viewpoint is unintelligent BTW. Just sometimes the dogmatic way it can be repeated and conveyed by a small number of people. I think that puts people off. Not the views that are held.

And what's wrong with reading books only written by women?

For centuries, the male gaze dominated the arts, be it literature, music, art, film... Male authors are the norm.

And MrGin, really...

SGM - I'd read her 5 books some years ago, and the one "All God's Children Need Travelling Shoes" was asort of defining moment. Despite everything, she retained a humour and vitality, and a belif in herself.
I saw her in Manchester circa 1996, and she held an audience of about 3,000 for two hours by just talking to us. Remarkable.

I see a lot of pretty terrible research being linked to on here though. Loads of anecdotal or interview based stuff which is then treated like some sort of conclusive proof of something. Thats across the board though not just the feminist threads.

Pan I totally love your story - hearts all over :)

MrGin stop moaning. You were told off on that stripper thread by the blessed AF for giving me a hard time. So stop acting like a victim.

yes MrGin, I'd seen some of that.

That sort of thing does happen round here, which is one thing, but the utter denial of it happening is something else. I read a lot of the FS, but often posting just isn;t worth it. Am too old and busy usually to bother with it.

catgirl ain't that the truth!

I itch to post Corrolation is not causation and the plural of anecdote is not data on many threads.

Oh no, pan, why d'you do that? Aren't you the pan that started the pro-dittany thread?

Gah

Still loved your story though.

If I had a pound for every time I've seem some folks mew and cry about cliques, orthodoxies, kabals or being silenced on message boards, on subjects from hamster care to classic cars, dating sites to craft sites, I'd be very wealthy.

Lots of heat, not much light, never much point.

Carry on though. You all seem to be enjoying the Mulder and Scully of it all.

running - yes it's amongst my best stories to bore regale people with.

Yes, it's the same Pan, runningforthebusinheels.