*I can stand when people blaspheme and say Ch*** as if its a swear word*

[Serendipity30]

I can stand when people blaspheme and say Ch* as if its a swear word do people think its cool?? People say they are tolerant of peoples faith but situations like that make me wonder I literally wince when people say it. I refuse to believe I ABU

Chibi - you have my respect for not demanding it. Would that there were more like you.

Chibi - if only all Christians were as thoughtful as you. I absolutely agree with what you say: we should respect people, not their beliefs.

I agree with Popcorn. Christians do agree on the central tenets of faith , and the existence or not of hell is not as vital as say, the resurrection of Jesus. I think if we were all here saying the exact same things and being inflexible in our thinking around some of these issues we would possibly be accused of being brainwashed and deluded, not using our brains. As it is, Christians have varying stances on peripheral issues, as is fitting. :)

I'm with chibi on the respecting people too. I don't expect people really to respect my faith. Why should they, if they don't have it themselves? I don't like hearing blasphemy etc but I don't ask people not to do that, it's up to them and really none of my business.

O ffs. I am not asking you to be fundamentalist loonies.

But what is it then that Christians believe in? Is it an abomination for a man to lie with a man? Do you suffer a witch to live? When you die do the non believers go to hell?

What annoys me is that most Christians seem to pick and chose what bits of the bible they believe in.

So it's like a menu then? You just choose the bits you fancy?

Please feel free to believe/not believe/be woolly about whatever you like. But by the same token you cannot demand respect for a set of 'beliefs' which will change depending on which kind of Christian you are.

"I am not asking you to be fundamentalist loonies."

But if you think there's no room for Christians to disagree, or to interpret the Bible differently to one another, then you're asking us to take the entire Bible literally, which is fundamentalism.

"What annoys me is that most Christians seem to pick and chose what bits of the bible they believe in."

We all do our best to interpret and understand the Bible, Spero. We don't set out to flippantly "pick and choose".

Thing is, what would be the point of 'picking and choosing?' How could that possibly be anything even resembling a thought out belief? If I really did look in the bible, said to myself 'ah, I fancy that bit, but that one - nah, it's politically incorrect, so out it goes', I would not be being true to myself, let alone any belief. I basically could not be bothered with a faith system like that.

As it is, we interpret biblical passages within the context they were written, remembering that they were written by people. The central tenets of faith rest on Jesus - his life, death and resurrection.

Oh and what did Jesus say? Love God and love your neighbour. That kind of sums it up :)

The Bible isn't an instruction manual, and just because someone writes about something in there doesn't mean we're meant to copy it, we're meant to consider and learn.

The best place to start with the Bible is the life and teachings of Jesus Christ - the gospels. Christians are followers of Jesus, not the Bible or church, although these may obviously help to guide, challenge and develop us in our faith. Everything else is secondary to Jesus, and anything in direct contradiction to what Jesus said is not his will.

Let's face it, if everyone in the Old Testament had got it right, there wouldn't have been any need for Jesus, would there?

Since faith is often described as personal relationship with god in you own mind, then how do you know that the faith you "feel" is the same "feeling" as the next Christian?

I mean, when I see the colour blue, my eyes "see" an electromagnetic oscillation at a set frequency and my brain interprets it as blue and I "see"..... urm.... well..... blue. But how do I know that my brains view of blue is not actually what someone else "sees" as red (or any other shade of any colour)?

How do you know that two Christians' interpretation of faith are alike. Basically, in reality, there are as many different faiths as there are people. Throw in the fact that everyone "understands" the "good book" in a different way and you soon realise that it can't be anything other than nonesense!

The bible isn't an instruction manual, but appears to be used as a menu for many people.

• Spero: I have explained clearly why I am on this thread.

I am 'working from home' today and am in desparate need of distraction.:

Really?? you have been on this thread all day and all night sounds like more than a distraction

You want to stop Spero saying Jesus Christ and also stop posting on this thread. Do you want to make her do anything else?

Oh for gods' sake (note the apostrophe).
You sound very narrow minded re your religion.
Live and let live, and you are doing Christianity no favours.
Think the Salvation Army, they go out and do stuff for those that need help,
I wonder what language they listen to.
If I was down on my luck someone as judgemental as you would never, ever make me appreciate Christianity, I'd run a mile. Just carry on going to church, do the flowers and give a cat's bum mouth to those that fall beneath the criteria that your narrow minded God demands. I'm sure your God will put you first in the queue come judgement day.

Popcorn, I'm constantly befuddled by Christians who apparently ignore the Gospels in favour of the less enlightened parts of the OT. But then pick and choose which bits of the OT - certain parts of Leviticus being apparently jolly important, but not the ones permitting slavery or saying people should be put to death for working on the Sabbath (which would have been Friday, in those days).

Hatred of women, or gay people, or other groups strikes me as directly contrary to the message preached by Jesus, who had very little to say about sex, as it happens, apart from 'Let him who is without sin cast the first stone'. He certainly said you shouldn't follow religious authorities blindly (pharisees, for instance).

Spero, A bigot is someone who is intolerant of the religious views of others. I am not intolerant of your religious views, I don't even know what they are or indeed if you have any.

I find your bigotry interesting though. Indeed it was what piqued my interest on this thread. I also find it interesting that twice now you have mentioned conversion.

For some reason I used to think the H stood for Harriet.

When I was young I presume I had a habit of copying my mother using Christ as a swear word as she told me I mustn't say it as it was a bad word. I presume trying to avoid me offending someone. Cue much confusion from the nursery teachers when I refused to sing parts of hymns.

Make of that what you will.

In other news, I say Jesus Christ on a pogo stick and I think I must have offended a lot of people when I was in labour

Dione: The definition of bigot is not limited to someone who is prejudiced against someone else's religious views. Spero is not exhibiting bigotry and although I'm sure she doesn't need me to defend her, I'm not sure why you and iamnot feel the need to bait and belittle her. It's a bit of a theme on this thread...

Technodad faith is indeed ones personal relationship with god and it is unique. This goes for anyone with faith, Christian or not. A religion is based around certain teachings, be they of Jesus, Mohammed, Buddah etc. Religion also functions as a method of group worship.

Throughout history the teachings have always been interpreted due to literacy levels, difference in language and for political reasons. The bible is not a book, it is a library, which is why it contains so many different messages and means different things to different people and has been used in many different ways.

For me, there is one part of the bible that particularly resonates with me and my faith. That is why I am a Christian.

For me, there is one part of the bible that particularly resonates with me and my faith. That is why I am a Christian.

Which part?

I don't like it either. totally unecessary

The part about loving god and loving your neighbour as you love yourself.

Jesus - that is a short summary of a long couple of books! You must have skim read them.

Wooly I cannot speak for anyone else on this thread, only myself. I have a personal and professional interest in intolerance and bigotry. Everyday I live with it's consequences and I am interested in it's origins in individuals. Do you not believe that Spero has displayed prejudiced views?

Technodad, it is a summary of a couple of sentences, not books. If you like I can look it up chapter and verse for you.

:o at Technodad It's true though, that's it in a nutshell :) The rest is context.