To be very scared at the details of the Universal tax credit?

[Feminine]

I had no idea.

I've been away from the UK, and just saw the actual proposals/rules on another thread.

Its bad right?

I imagine there is another thread on this so if there is, sorry ...I can't find it! :)

Oh deary me glitter, that's unfortunate.

oh haha BayPolar's turned up

YY, Coffee causes cancer. So do asylum seekers, pot noodles and the glue in the binding of mucky books.mailomatic

Agree unlikely.

baypolar ...you sound a little bit constipated.

If someone can't take a job with more hours because they can't get childcare, so they are forced to do this workfare, who is going to organise the childcare for them?

But what happens if you earn more than NMW, can you work less hours? Is it really about the amount of the money you earn than the hours you work?

Bloody good point totem

Hopefully the whole thing will fall flat on its face.

and hook I'd like to know that too.

Totem, from past experience...they will be seen to "refuse" it and be "sanctioned".

Let the little fuckers of broken homes starve.

hook, I've been asking that all over, and googling. I cannot work it out .

If it is seriously suggested that I give up a PT teaching job to work at the corner shop, just so I can get up to 24 hours a week (on a much lower wage) then I despair.

Totem pole. Good question. That is not made clear either. Presumably the Big Society will take care of them.

Hookaduck- Well, at the moment it's the hours you work, so I can't see it being different.
Obviously if you earned over the threshold only doing 20 hours, you would not qualify.
The threshold will be significantly lowered though.
At present a single parent can earn up to 40 k and still get some child tax credit.
Under UC a single parent will be able to earn up to 26 k, and after that no tax credit.
In London, where a 2 bed flat can easily be £900 a month, that is no joke.

Many of us lone parents already shoulder the entire financial burden for rent on two/three bed flats, dinner money, travel costs for us and our children, clothing,bills (hello £325 energy bill that landed on my doormat on Valentines day).
We really need our child tax credit.
Or better wages and affordable childcare.

In all of this it is children paying the price.

What happens to people who have jobs but are not working the required no of hours? Are they expected to give up those jobs to do full time workfare or will they be required to work additional workfare hours to make up the difference?

BTW:

coffee enemas = probably a bad idea
gin enemas = definitely a bad idea

YANBU. It will end badly with riots, I just have a feeling. It's crazy, there are no jobs! The only people that seem happy with it are WOHMs who don't like SAHMs having the choice to do so. I am not a lone parent but hate the way they are treated. I think they should be allowed to do voluntary work during school hours and term time if they find that easier. They have enough to do doing the work of both parents, running the house etc. Secondary age they should be allowed part time hours if they choose. My older DC need me just as much after school. They are independant and are on their own at times but couldn't have them on their own every day, wasn't a good idea when I was a teen, we got up to allsorts!
As for forcing disabled people to work, that is just pure evil.

I can't see this Gov lasting long thank goodness.

It seems that you have to earn a certain amount or everyone would be claiming to be self-employed for x hours but not turning a profit or much of one. A few people would lie, most would actually be working, but have costs which would bring profits down or well, be trying to earn a living in, oh what's that thing called again, IDS - oh yes; a RECESSION.

I posted this earlier on the subject of childcare:

CMs are self-employed, can only make so much due to age / ratio restrictions and crucially, have to spend money. Professional training, food, fees for playgroups, toys, craft materials needed in order to deliver the early years curriculum. Most of these would be tax deductible, surely? So you will be unlikely to make a profit equivalent to NMW.

If I am correct, then only people who will be able to afford losing tax credits under UC will be those who have high-earning husbands. OR fees will have to rise. So it might well be that finding affordable and available childcare will become even more of a problem for everyone.

I can well imagine quite a few formerly self-employed people having to do workfare INCLUDING childminders. That'll help

It's completely unworkable. How much does IDS get paid? It's a shit idea and he is clearly incompetent. Sack him and save the country a few quid. My consultancy fee is very reasonable.

And while I am on the subject, is parenting really just about bringing in the money?
In the time I was working P/T, and was looking after my kid, I was engaged in bringing up a fully functioning member of society.
He started school
secure and able to do things independently.
He has an unshakeable bond with me, that, one would hope, will lessen the chances that he will (as the Daily Mail would like you to believe) become a crime-committing, drug addled product of a single mum.
I did that.
If we did live in America I would have had to work full time,and possibly more from day one, and he would not have had any of that.
I turned out a happy well adjusted child who will be a fucking asset to any society, big or otherwise.

You're welcome Dave.

I don't get why people get so angry with the government for putting in place rules on subsidizing their incomes. Shouldn't companies be encouraged to pay adequate wages instead?

I have to say i'm personally shitting it (sorry for the pun re. enemas)..

There are lots of lone parents (like myself) setting up small businesses, and its widely accepted that you're lucky if you break even in the 1st year.. luckily i did.. 2nd year i've made a profit of just over £1200 so far.. hopefully more next financial year. Yes it sounds miniscule, but it's my own business and it takes years to build it up.

Under the UC scheme, noone will be able to set up small businesses from scratch - there's a helluva lot of leg work/ research etc required, i work well over 30 hours a week, but don't earn NMW for those 30 hours.

I work bloody hard, but under the UC scheme i'll have to give it all up, to work in Tescos which is fucking heartbreaking

That makes sense IDoNotLIKEFun but in my field, I do the work and then I get paid if it's good enough to sell. I've been waiting to find out whether a publisher wants my work since September last year. Some self employed jobs don't pay weekly/monthly.

BayPolar - your DP is a wanker if he does not think he benefits from other people's children being educated. Who does he think works in the GPs office, the Dental surgery, the stores he shops in?

how much is it going to cost when Carers start putting their relatives into institutions?

Well said jellybeans

Too much Kal. The cuts in the NHS mean there won't be enough staff to nurse the sick. Do you think they are trying to work the poor to death?

Totally agree Northern. You did that, yes. How much does Dave have to do with his children's upbringing do you think? Is it mainly the province of expensive nannies and schools? He didn't even know how many nappies his late son needed before the election.

Why are the people who ARE working, raising responsible future citizens, being targeted when there are so many men out there who don't work, parent or pay for their children?

The libertarian view of those like baypolar's partner is pretty ridiculous - any civilized society needs a public sanitation system, health care, education, police, army, etc.

The individual can not shirk his share of the financial burden.

MIW, so from your own post you must be able to see that for many other women, their 12 year old could well be home from school at 3.30, they don't have an older sibling, and the mother would not be home from work for another 3 hours. Many women will be doing shift work and will not be home all evening.

So you are actually in a very fortunate position, in that regardless of having capital built up before kids, neither you nor your husband have become disabled and you have had two healthy children; we are not all in your position. You are also in the fortunate position that your husband hasn't left you. Many other women will also not be in your fortunate position of their child only being alone in the house for 40 mins - that is going to be quite an unusual situation for many women working full time jobs.

Just because everything has worked out in a fortunate way for you doesn't mean that the rest of us are quite so lucky and that your charmed life is an appropriate model from which to build a national policy - your life does not reflect the reality of the rest of us.

"At present a single parent can earn up to 40 k and still get some child tax credit.
Under UC a single parent will be able to earn up to 26 k, and after that no tax credit"

The rules change from April for tax credits as per the budget. On a household income, whether one or two parents, of £26k with one child tax credits will cease unless there is a disability element. So UC will be the same threashold it seems.