to think Tesco should fucking well PAY THEIR STAFF?

[QueenOfFlippingEverything]

I know, I know, there have been threads about it already.

But this is so rage-inducing, I want THE WHOLE OF EVERYONE to know about it.

Jobcentre advert placed by Tesco for night shift staff. Who will be paid [drumroll] JSA (£67 a week) plus travel expenses.

Why the fucking fuck should Tesco get their staff for free? Why? Their profits last year were something like £3.5 billion last year!

I know who I think is taking the piss here, and its not the unemployed people who will be forced to work night shifts at Tesco for their £67 a week

Just caught up with last nights Newsnight. That Tory MP woudnt accept the truth would she? The guy in the middle with the glasses was good at getting his point across and making it clear that the schemes ARE mandatory for ALL ages. The truth is getting out there though this Gov. are doing their best to try and stifle it.

But that's exactly my point - slavery IS still in action all over the world (in this country too, actually, especially within the sex trade) and of course I teach that, and of course I teach that slavery WASN'T White vs Black or European vs Africans - that's the first thing I teach, in fact, and the students are always shocked to discover the long history that slavery has, and the fact that Africans enslaved Africans etc. etc. But it's precisely BECAUSE so many still suffer in this way (as 'possessions', and we all know what that means for female (and indeed many male) slaves, even their bodies belong to their slavers) that it's just, odd, to see it referred to in this context.

I think that 'forced labour' is less uncomfortable.

Anyway, I don't want to derail this debate, but I did need to mention that.

(Oh, and holocaust means 'calamity' - I don't feel qualified to judge the work of civil rights campaigners, frankly, but I think the word 'calamity' makes sense)

Sorry you find slavery and forced labour uncomfortable knitknack. I find it uncomfortable too and that's why I want it to stop.

Please remember that in many cases JSA does not even cover people's basic food and bills, resulting in high levels of debt in this country. People are borrowing to fund their basic living costs, its a downward spiral they have little hope of getting out of.

If people cannot afford adequate food and are being forced to work... imagine the consequences. People will be dropping dead at work, in the street, in their homes. Have you covered Nazi Germany and the Warsaw ghettos yet knitknack. A good teacher would understand the relevance.

OK, i'm out of this madness

Herbrew for holocaust is "shoa" meaning great calamity. Sorry I was a bit tetchy about the holocaust post this morning.

Carenotasaint I've just watched News Night, I think the MP was minster for knitting she looked quite confident until the guy in the middle unpicked her offering. She clearly had been briefed in the idea that this is just effecting young people and public reaction is only in relation to 18-24yr olds.

Where can I find out more info about ESA and Wrag?

Oh and carer was right about Heart foundation but last I heard they were reviewing their involvement.

"minister" I'm so tired

minimathsmouse, this DWP document from further up is explicit on how the Work Programme will be mandatory for people in the WRAG, and also for people who were receiving Incapacity Benefit but have now been told to claim JSA (described as JSA Ex-IB).

Did you mean more about how ESA is now awarded, and who gets put in the WRAG? I've posted above about them.

At Thu 16-Feb-12 23:28:22 and on another thread I've described the three groups into which former Incapacity Benefit recipients are being split (WRAG are Group 2 - and described as "limited capacity to work", where limited may mean very very limited indeed).

And at Thu 16-Feb-12 19:51:00 I've put in an example of an old question for Incapacity Benefit vs the new question for ESA. Graduations (b) to (e) are omitted in the new question, ensuring that some disabilities don't get recorded. It's a neat mechanism for throwing people off disability benefits.

Big apologies for any inaccuracies, hope someone can find a source that explains it better and more reliably than me.

Very appropriate name for a person who wants to nitpick knitnack

In the Guardian today, it talks of Tescos changing the scheme to offer the people the 'choice' of EITHER working for their benefits OR taking a 4-week PAID work placement WITH the gurantee of a job at the end IF their work placement is completed satisfactorily.

Just one GLARING problem with this - they are STILL BEING FORCED TO DO IT UNPAID FOR THEIR BENEFITS.

While the Guardian MIGHT be lauding this new statement as a success story - IT BLOODY WELL ISN'T.

Because Tescos and the DWP have neglected to mention one HUGE omission. If you take a 4-week work experience placement PAID - you will be INELIGIBLE to claim Tax Credits - because the work can only be guaranteed if you complete the Work experience programme to Tescos satisfaction.

You will also have your Housing Benefits affected, and have to cover your rent so as not to lose your home - as you will have had a 'change in circumstances', which takes a MINIMUM of 6 weeks to reassess. Ditto your Council Tax benefits.

IF they did the PAID placements for just ONE WEEK LONGER, they would be eligible to claim Tax Credits. The reason they have chosen a 4-week PAID placement as the replacement for this Workfare scheme is because they KNOW that no-one can risk losing their home, and trying to survive on NMW WITHOUT Tax Credits - and therefore they WILL BE FORCED TO DO THE PLACEMENT UNPAID IN RETURN FOR THEIR BENEFITS. To be able to cover their basic living costs.

This is just a sop to the masses, to make people shut up. Because they don't expect hardly anyone to be ABLE to take up the 4-week paid placement - because the job isn't guaranteed for 5 weeks, thus meaning the inability to claim Tax Credits...

THEY THINK WE ARE ALL STUPID AND WILL SHUT UP AND GO AWAY BECAUSE THEY HAVE 'FIXED' THE WORKFARE PROBLEM.

NEWSFLASH: WE AREN'T STUPID, AND WILL KEEP FIGHTING UNTIL THIS SCHEME IS MADE LONG ENOUGH FOR PEOPLE TO CLAIM TAX CREDITS ON TOP OF THE PAID* PLACEMENT.

pouty reaction, knitknack. just cos everyone didn't fall at your feet.

(i think i am a bit stupid, though, because i don't really understand hunty's post, at least not well enough to get it down to 140 chars.)

Jeepers, I seriously need to sort out my namechanges. Sorry, realised have been posting on this thread in two different names.

Now I'll need a new new one...

Article talking about the change in the scheme, made to sound like it is so much better and no-one will be forced to work for their benefits. Which is a LIE. Well, it is if they don't want to lose their home and be able to eat. Which for a family - £228 BEFORE tax just doesn't. And that is for an over 21yo. Who may well have a partner and / or dc. It would be LESS for anyone under 21.

are the guardian journos watching this thread, do you know, hunty?

I don't know - but I just sent the Guardian an email pointing out that this ISN'T a success story, and why.

good for you. (even if i don't understand a word of it. )

Thank you Kipper, I have read through the DWP stuff, infact I have been posting it all round FB, but I don't know enough about ESA,

Employment Support Allowance?? does this replace DLA? and I think but am not sure that under the new assessments and levels, Atos have reassessed people as having less disability and greater capacity for work?

I'm not a disability rights campaigner and have no exp of this system, so feel I need to know a bit more.

HuntyCat, I don't understand the finer points of the system and take my hat off to you. Although I have been trying to convince people that Tesco hasn't pulled out and it still isn't voluntary.

Everyone seems to be mollified by the Tesco announcement.

Boots and Wilkinsons were due to make a statement today, have they?

Have looked at the Qs thanks.

I wonder does the Atos contract work like the level 1 employment companies, where they get money for results?

If so might that be an issue too?

Not that I have seen - but I have been busy with RL and a school that won't guarentee my son's safety at break and lunch....

ESA (Employment and Support Allowance) is what has replaced Incapacity Benefit. It has different criteria, and lots of people who were previously claiming IB are now NOT entitled to ESA. Including me. Because the 'descriptors' that qualify you for ESA are MUCH harsher than those for IB were. Which means that you can still HAVE a disability, be classed as UNFIT TO WORK by your Consultant - yet STILL be deemed FIT TO WORK (And therefore ineligible to claim ESA) by the DWP...

To give you a RL example of this, I shall use myself! I have uncontrolled epilepsy. Under the 'descriptors' for IB for epilepsy, you would automatically qualify for IB at the highest level if you had at least 1 seizure a week. (52+ per year). I met this criteria, so received IB.

When my claim was 'migrated' (transferred) to the new ESA, the 'descriptors' had changed so that you ONLY qualified for ESA on the basis of epilepsy if you have 2 seizures a DAY. (700+ per year). I DON'T meet this criteria.

So despite the fact that my Consultant has only signed me as 'fit to work PART-TIME ONLY, on LIGHT duties', according to the DWP, I am fit to work Full Time. . And am therefore entitled to NO ESA.

DLA (Disability Living Allowance) will be being replaced by PIP (Personal Independance Payment) soon. The things that qualify you will change to be much harder to qualify for PIP than it is for DLA, as they have done with IB / ESA.

One example - if you are in a wheelchair, and you can self-propel 50 metres on a level surface - then under PIP you will be classed as ABLE-BODIED. Regardless of the fact that you will be trapped in your house. Currently under DLA, you would more than likely qualify for DLA.

The Government is writing out the fact of literally MILLIONS of people's disabilities, and denying they exist.

Proof of this can be found in the DWP's OWN impact statement on the Welfare reform bill - which shows that 1 in 5 of the working age population is REGISTERED DISABLED (I.e. Under a consultant for a disability). This equates to roughly 7,000,000 people. Yet just 300,000 will be protected from the Universal Credit (UC) benefits cap through being on DLA. Those on ESA, who either have NO capacity to work, or a VERY limited capcity for even a FEW hours of work a week, will NOT be protected.

"The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions has released statistics in respect of ESA medical examinations. The figures seem to suggest out of 189,800 assessed, 130,500 were found fit for work."
whywaitforever.com/dwpatos.html

Right so some American welfare insurer is responsible for writing the legislation and another private company is contracting to assess claimants.

Is it possible that somewhere in the process of bashing out the changes and consulting with DWP that ATOS has been explicitly told to "make people fit for work"

Need proof. Not heresay,

I understand - try looking an the Frothers threads on politics. One of the people on there might well be able to link you to something that gives you the proof you need. I haven't got time to search tonight, and haven't got the mental energy either!!

I know what Huntycat means. I explained it on one of these workfare threads but i cant remember which one.
But Huntycat has explained it better than i did and in much more detail.
They would have to sign off for 4 weeks and you dont get tax credits OR the Housing Benefit run on unless the job lasts at least FIVE weeks.
So they will get into debt with their rent and AND council tax and then if Tesco find a "reason" not to employ them afterwards it can take SIX WEEKS for benefit to be reinstated. From what ive heard a Rapid Reclaim is anything but!

Look up Unum too.