Does any one actually know kids like this?

[westcoastnortherner]

Yes, Yes I know it's a Daily Mail article, but are there really that many kids like this out there?!

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2101292/They-wear-nappies-drink-cola--dont-know-open-book-One-teachers-terrifying-insight-5-year-olds-failed-parents.html#comments

Of course it doesn't make it alright ffs

Way to miss the fucking point

Terriblly written article, horrible judgemental teacher - My daughter still needs help with dressing, shes 6! What does that make me? Ive always helped her, maybe i should just leave her to get on with it. Shes a lovely sweet little girl, has a bookcase full of books, that we have read to her since she was born, she struggles a bit with her reading, she also had some speech delay too. Err, am i to assume that i am just a shite mother then and that its totally all my fault? There is a woman like this at my daughetrs school, primary school teacher always going on about how vile some of the kids in her class are and that she is that they dont wear full school uniform - in her case it is total snobbery, i did once suggest she got a job in a private school! so glad shes not my daughter's teacher.

usual that's because you don't seem to making a point. You're either saying it's all rubbish and doesn't happen in the face of plenty of examples that it does, or you're defending council estates which aren't being attacked, and now that you've run out of ways disagree with the OP, you've fallen back on saying, "Oh, well, it's always happened."

For a more constructive discussion, what do you think should be done about examples like the many that have been cited on this thread? There are plenty of examples to say that it's not a money/class issue, so what common denominator is tying the parents of these children together? Can that denominator be harnessed to make some changes? Should teachers take a step back and force the hands of the parents?

Agree that poverty is NOT the only or evenmain driver here. Self obsessed lazy parents exist in all walks of life. The last boy I read to was severely overweight. His mum & dad both had decent jobs. He was 8 but when I asked him what his favourite dinner was, in relationto a book we'd read, he said 'the balsamic vinegar one'. I eventually found out that his mum gave him a sharing sized bag of kettle chips every night in lieu of dinner. She didn't have time to cook or wash up as she had chatting to do, MN perhaps!!! He played call of duty for hours on end & couldn't read much at all. We were on the basic level one readers after 1 year. He slept on the sofa most nights as that's where he fell asleep & his mum allowed him too as it meant she didn't have to make up his bed. We did a picnic type session as a group once & half of them (about 7or so aged 7-9) couldn't drink out of a beaker & not one of them would drink water, so one of my colleagues got some squash. Those who didn't spill dribbled it out of their mouth as they didn't know how to make the right shape with their lips.

I can understand why people don't believe this article, it is very difficult to accept that this happens anywhere. I do think it's a minority overall, bit it is definitely too common.

rulebritannia in the school I described, the teachers were in regular contact with SS about around 100 of the 400 or so pupils. They had strategies in place to cope with children who were taken in to care which were exercised at least twice a week.

I think its because the families involved often have other issues that make parenting more difficult, their support is being cut or limited and then people on here are denying it happens or there arent cases like this (in some areas plenty of cases) I have no idea if this happens in affluent areas/nursery as I only know my estate and working in a setting on my estate.I just know there is a lot of problems as discussed in this article and when parents have support and work with the nursery and other agencies things often improve for these children as the parents didnt know where to start.

I think denying it isnt very prevelant or getting defensive because you live in a deprived area is silly (as I said I live there myself but that doesnt mean I can deny what I see and experience daily or that all parents/families are experiencing this) Surestart is a massive help, so is the access we have had to outside agencies and my primary concern is to improving outcomes to children who experience this, often brought up by parents who have been brought up in same manner.

I believe the article, but think the numbers would be lowered if they discounted those with SN.

DS comes from a loving home, however cannot dress himself, is still in nappies at night, can't use a knife and drinks lots of fizzy drinks. We are undergoing a diagnosis for dyspraxia and hypermobility.

He also has a condition which want us to drink fizzy drinks with some tablets as it helps them dissolve in the right part of the bowel.

He fits the criteria of being poorly parented however he has an amazing vocabulary, can read beyond his age and is an outgoing sociable boy. All of these facts should be taken with a pinch of salt, because I guarantee that a hefty proportion would have tests for certain diagnosis later on in life.

Reindeer- the numbers don't include SN. This is determined by how the child responds to the services put in place. There are parents that are drastically reducing their children's opportunities and life chances by the way that they parent.

If the threseholds were not in place, that get the services to the families, we would have serious problems. The children being put onto a "plan" force the parents to accept help, some still don't and the children have to be removed.

well i work voluntarily in a creche and there is a 4 year old and an almost 3 year old still in nappies, both little girls, one has a bottle still. This is just how people are raising their kids these days. Its in all backgrounds and societies although of course the fascist and racist daily mail are trying to subtly always blame certain religions, single mums and nationalities.

ive seen neglected kids who are lacking stimulation and interaction from the parents and the effects this has on their development. I just feel so awful for them :(

The Family Support team that is connected to my department have to run oral hygeine courses for the children 6-11 years old, to teach them how to brush their teeth, we extend it to basic hygeine, as well. We give out hygeine packs with everything in that the children need to keep themselves clean. These are not families that cannot afford toothbrushes, they just don't bother.

The parents fail to understand that they are raising future adults.

But my child is only starting dx at 7, this article is applies to 4/5 year olds. So its highly likely that some diagnosis could be possible in the future for some of the children involved - although admittedly I know that there are some poor parents out there, I just haven't witnessed it to this level. Doesn't mean it can't happen I suppose.

Birds - how do they not know about oral hygiene at that age :(. Even 2yo DD knows when to brush her teeth and gives it a go.

I'll admit DS missed many milestones for several reasons, and it was only when I had DD I realised how 'normal' children behave. Even deprived children develop enough to be curious about tooth brushing, washing themselves, feeding themselves with the right equipment, books etc as just a normal part of toddlerdom don't they?

I helped with school reading groups, in a deprived area. The children were lovely, they read and joined activities with enthusiasm, obviously the parents looked after them well. This was about 10 years ago, I feel sad that there might not be much opportunity for them now.

but are the aforesaid bollocks in pants or a nappy?

I think if it wasn't for surestart I could have easily became one of these parents in some ways.

mmm what do you mean these days? Me and my peers all had bottles up to.age of 5 or so. And it is not abnormal.for an almost 3 year old to be in nappies. Or a 3 year old.

Reindeer- how this is decided is by how the child responds to the stimuli/training given in school. I am a CP SW so obviously i see these families constantly ,but i also live in an area were as i said 20% have SS intervention for these reasons. If intervention wasn't started under 3 the figure would be 40% as quoted in the DM.

A child can start off on a Common Assessment Framework (CAF) then progress to Child In Need and then on to CP, if the parent will not co-operate. As i said this week i have carried out unannouced home visits to find fully toilet trained children, by the school, put back in nappies over this half term.

I can think of a nearly 4 yr old still in nappies day and night. "fraightfully" middle class, well educated parents, one of which is an ex primary teacher and is now a SAHM.

My youngest has moderate LD's and speech and language problems, with children who struggle it is important to wean correctly because it builds the muscles needed for speach, so if anything it becomes more important to encourage development, not cut the child off from it, as i have seen parents doing.

My old next door neighbours child had to have ALL his teeth removed at 4. They had rotted away to tiny blackened stumps..he always had a bottle hanging from his mouth in which he had coffee with lots of sugar:( Until he started school I never saw him dressed..he was always in a nappy jumper and wellies in the garden no matter what the weather.
This wasn't a deprived area.. just a middle of the road area in Oxfordshire. SS were aware that there were problems (Mum had mental health issues) but he WAS loved, he was fed enough and was only moderately dirty and nothing was done.

I'm a TA in school and one of our current class also had most of his teeth removed recently..again, they were rotten stumps. Mum couldn't cope and Gran has fed him on a staggeringly bad diet for most of his life. His entire lunch box is chocolate..even the sandwiches:( he won't eat school meals because he has never had the experience of vegetables. Very sad and very hard to overcome 6 years of appalling diet.

I know of a (upper/middle class - london pad, farm home in the country, private school etc) family whose children were in nappies till 5. They would say it was too hard to get them clean as they had accidents and they couldn't be bothered to keep changing. I think it is laziness rather than class.

Timetosmile - aforesaid mentioned mini bollocks is toilet trained during the day, and in nappies at night (training pants fall down due to being too skinny).

Birds - thank goodness for your intervention then! I genuinely thought there could be good parents who do try but SN is the underlying cause. Good parenting actually makes parenting easier (although it doesn't feel like that at the time!).

It isn't just a council estate thing by any means. I taught for several years in a rural area, and although my students were 16+, some of them had scarily limited life experience - never having left their home county was fairly common.
Some of them attended college despite extremely unsupportive parents who belittled them and attempted to stop them coming, usually by witholding money for transport or inventing/exaggerating family emergencies or family business needs. These were a minority, but they stuck in my head.

I've heard some very sad stories from the school my mum works at. There is a small group of children who show up very early every day for school, in last week's dirty uniform and not having eaten since the day before. They are allowed to help Mum and her colleagues (administrators), clean whiteboards or read quietly until the breakfast club opens, although this isn't meant to be allowed. The head realises that they show up that early to avoid their abusive parents, and considers it the school's duty to protect them.

I don't personally know any children like this but my mum is a year R teacher and she knows plenty. Some of them probably do have SN but it surely can't be all of them. Awful, lazy, ignorant parenting certainly exists and IMO there is no excuse when there is so much information and support not just available but constantly pushed at parents in this area.