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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Does any one actually know kids like this?

391 replies

westcoastnortherner · 15/02/2012 16:44

Yes, Yes I know it's a Daily Mail article, but are there really that many kids like this out there?!

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2101292/They-wear-nappies-drink-cola--dont-know-open-book-One-teachers-terrifying-insight-5-year-olds-failed-parents.html#comments

OP posts:
PamPerdbrat · 15/02/2012 20:44

birds now I know this is off topic, but I think some parents struggle with bedtime, because of the 'baby led' idea that midwives push. They tell you to just follow the baby. And that's a good start, but because we're not all natural parents. But then when does the 'baby led' idea stop? When are you supposed to implement a bedtime, regular mealtimes etc? It's easy to say 'when the child is ready' but clearly that doesn't work, because I know of about 5 or 6 toddlers with a bedtime of 10/11pm, even later for one.

I think healthcare professionals need to remain a bigger part of parents lives for much longer, and offer more practical support. I.e a visit at about 4 months; here's some ideas on how to start a bedtime routine, this is how much sleep they should be having and helping parents who's babies are difficult sleepers. Another visit before weaning; show how to prepare food, the consistency and types and when to introduce other foods etc, what a balanced meal consists of etc. As the toddler years approach, another visit perhaps to give ideas about coping mechanisms for tantrums, talk about how easy it is to fly off the handle and non violent discipline techniques.

I really felt like the midwives and hw's couldn't wait to dispense with me and get me off their books. I really wouldve appreciated some practical support and someone talking to me about realistic routines/weaning etc because honestly, I didn't have a clue. It must be so easy to let things slip.

nailak · 15/02/2012 20:44

I live in Newham. My mum has worked as a reception teacher here for 25 years. I have never seen this. However my mum has spoken of kids who don't know how to feed and dress.themselves or how to respect adults. As well as kids who don't know fairy tales or nursery rhymes in any language.

I think people find it so hard to believe as it is so far outside of their experience.

megapixels · 15/02/2012 20:44

It sounds horribly exaggerated. If even half of that is true then it is very sad indeed.

ByTheWay1 · 15/02/2012 20:47

I agree QueenMaeve - I am so glad mine are in Y5and 6 now there does seem to be a "wave" of years below them with some serious problems. And looking at the fact that many kids are being transferred INTO our school from others to get away from problem years, it is very prevalent locally.

GavisconJunkie · 15/02/2012 20:48

B god, you're going to make me back up a DM article, I feel dirty...

Yes, sadly, several. I used to be a reading buddy at a school in one of the most deprived electoral wards in sw England. My volunteer role was to listen to children reading on a one to one basis for 20 mins a week, one child per school year, aged between 7-9. There were 15 volunteers. The children's needs varied from being almost totally unable to read, to being perfectly capable but lacking in other major social areas.

One of the girls already had rotten adult teeth, she was 9 and still had a baby bottle to drink out of. She only drank panda pop. She had no toys to speak of, but each of her 5 siblings had their own ps2. She had no books, but did want some. She was the least bad example, sadly she as quite capable in other ways, she basically looked after her little bother. She was taken into care 3 times in the year that I knew her.

There were a number of much sadder stories, & one 7 year old still in nappies, although he was embarrassed by this. He did appear to be continent, but his mum told the school he couldn't be trusted. He told me his mum never talked to him, but did talk to his sister a bit, the rest of the time she had her headphones in. He loved our sessions, he had never had anyone read to or with him before. He wasnt allowed books or toys because they made a mess. His attendance rate was 45%.

I could go on, bit it makes me sad to remember.

usualsuspect · 15/02/2012 20:48

There were neglected kids and badly behaved kids in the 60s its nothing new

Birdsgottafly · 15/02/2012 20:49

Betty- the difference is that the family in the 70's lived in poverty, what you find now is that it is a lack of care towards the child. There is a washing machine at home and an indoor working bathroom, the child just doesn't get to use them, for various reasons.

Families that are on "plans" are not living in the poverty that the families were in the 70's, essentials are provided.

I was glad the it was shown on television, that SS provided a bed for a child because many do not realise that money and clothing etc are given if needed.

GavisconJunkie · 15/02/2012 20:50

Btw I NEVER would have believed this before I worked with these kids. I would have assumed it was 'wretched poor people' media hype. I now don't think it is at all. :(

BettyBathroom · 15/02/2012 20:50

ByTheWay1 Think that was my point - we are white middle class but we don't eat meat and two veg...ever! We rarely need to use a knife and fork for any of the meals I cook and I cook damn fine nutrious food - just not very conventional British food - so how would you know what people cook at home and what is normal? My dcs had their first roast dinner at school - that is what school dinners are for - to cook stuff I don't like! Wink

Birdsgottafly · 15/02/2012 20:53

Pam-in these areas and identified families, HVs will call daily,they will give baths etc to the children. What you describe isn't the problem. Development workers will also call from the Local Children's Centre to try to get these families in. Creches are provided for struggling parents.

There is nothing baby or child led in what these parents do.

ReduceRecycleRegift · 15/02/2012 20:54

I've thought of another, lived in a nice flat in a nice area a stones throw from a lovely park and a playground, upstairs neighbour had a child who NEVER left the flat except to go to child care (where hopefully they got out a bit). Professional well dressed parents who IMO didn't really want to be parents IYKWIM, lots of drinks parties round theirs in the evening - must have been hard for little one to sleep Sad

RuleBritannia · 15/02/2012 20:55

BettyBathroom

So you cook meals? What sport? How do you eat your home-cooked meals? By licking the plate?

RuleBritannia · 15/02/2012 20:55

Sorry - I meant to ask What sort?

PamPerdbrat · 15/02/2012 20:55

birds I meant sessions like I described should be open to all parents; including the middle class ones. Just because you've got a decent salary it doesn't make you a good parent.

smokinaces · 15/02/2012 20:57

Yes, in the estate I live in and in the work I used to do I have seen families like this. I have seen them with coke in their bottles at easily the age of 7. (one time was at a buffet restaurant where they ordered a glass of coke, removed the straw and poured it into the childs bottle, even though he was clearly in the late Infants stage of school) I have seen children at 4 in nappies in the day (very common to still have children of 5 or 6 in nappies all night too) and yes there are children who dont go to bed until they drop on the floor at midnight. I know some of these families personally too. They do definitely exist.

RuleBritannia · 15/02/2012 20:57

If children are sent to school unable to do basic tasks like dressing themselves or using toilets properly, why don't the schools report them to the Social Services? Why should teachers - or the support staff - have to change nappies or clear up after 'accidents'?

BettyBathroom · 15/02/2012 20:57

I know poverty exists I know it's awful, I know something should be done to help these kids - but I think the teacher in the article is a little precious or the article is written by someone who has got a bit confused about their objective and that is a real missed opportinuity because we should be all screaming about these poor kids but instead we are getting heated about how crap & judgey the DM are...again!

hardboiledpossum · 15/02/2012 20:58

I don't think not being able to hold a pencil or paintbrush is necessarily down to bad parenting. I worked as a nanny for two boys who struggled to do these things. Their parents were both teachers and were fantastic parents but they were more interested in doing other things. I think they still struggle at age 6 to write but they have a reading age of 10.

I work in childcare and have never come across children as described in the article.

Haziedoll · 15/02/2012 20:59

I'm sure its a minority but sadly I have come across children like this.

ReduceRecycleRegift · 15/02/2012 20:59

"birds I meant sessions like I described should be open to all parents; including the middle class ones. Just because you've got a decent salary it doesn't make you a good parent."

YY to that!

I fell through the net a lot because I live in the right side of a deprived area and am married to a nice man and have a nice home, so the HVs sort of treated visits to me as a little break from the harrowing sights they see a few roads up in the bedsits etc. I was excluded from free HV referral sessions at the childrens centre that friends who were single mums on the wrong side of the area were offered. I needed them too! Sad

I wasn't coping, I needed more support, but I looked too clean/tidy/financially ok to be a struggling slightly crap parent Angry (as if the two are mutually exclusive)

ByTheWay1 · 15/02/2012 21:00

Yes, we eat the same - bolognaise, fajitas, salad etc, but still taught the kids to eat with a knife and fork so they can eat anywhere.. I like "proper" restaurants....

to us it was just one of those growing up things you do.... please/thank you -tick, no hitting -tick, knife/fork -tick, shoelaces -tick, homework before TV -tick, light out when I say -tick, FLUSH THE BLOOMIN' TOILET -grr getting there....

rhondajean · 15/02/2012 21:00

Social services will almost certainly be aware of them.

The alternative to someone changing them at school would be they. Iss school, which is possibly in some cases the only place they are learning basic and social skills.

It's hobsons choice sadly.

BettyBathroom · 15/02/2012 21:01

Rule Britannia We eat with a fork mostly, if we are eating Thai we use a spoon and occasionally we use flat bread to scoop up food.

NoWayNoHow · 15/02/2012 21:01

There were neglected kids and badly behaved kids in the 60s its nothing new

Well, that makes it all fine then.

Hmm
Birdsgottafly · 15/02/2012 21:02

Middle class perents have the ability to get the information without it being pushed, if they are not doing that then that is neglect, also, but they have the skills to find out and implement it themselves.

The Children's Centres were designed to improve parenting but in some areas these have been lacking.

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