that I'm upset friend who miscarried has deleted me from facebook now I'm pregnant?

[Medi1982]

My friend had a miscarriage recently and I organised our friends' to visit and we brought gifts to try and cheer her up. I then unexpectedly found out I was expecting a baby. We've been at some events together where understandably my pregnancy has been like the elephant in the room with it mentioned by friends in whispers when she's not in the room or not at all but she has recently deleted me as a friend on FB. I can understand to an extent but what's upsetting is that she's quite happy to comment on friend's pictures of their babies and children. But the whole time it makes me feel guilty!!

Jelly, Sauvignon, NoOnes, if you read my post, I have indeed had losses and a length period of TTC. I meant, that if you are so grief stricken that you cannot have a functional friendship with a those who have had children or are pregnant then that is an issue that could be worked at, for your own good as well as your friend. I had counselling for a year to "get a bit better at dealing" I took responsibility for incredibly destructive emotions that whilst entirely justified, were not just hurting those around me fortunate enough to get pregnant complication free, but hurting me by losing out on the support of valuable lifelong friendships.

OP, YANBU to be upset. I am currently pregnant but have miscarried previously. I used to feel a tinge of jealousy and slight fear whenever I heard of other ladies getting pregnant. However, it wouldn't have occurred to me to avoid pregnant ladies or delete them from FB, certainly not a friend.

I have read your post and I am sorry for your losses, but I stand by what I said about the part of your post that I quoted.

There is no 'should' when you are talking about the grief a parent feels over the loss of their baby. She hasn't done anything to the OP other than, as Maryz says, press a button on a computer, and we don't know why she did that as she didn't say and the OP hasn't asked her. But what she feels and how she copes will be different to everyone else, me, you, anyone who has lost a child, and there just is no 'should be better' about it.

You've gone into much more detail about what you meant by that sentence in your reply and that comes across as being more sympathetic and understanding than you originally did.

Sorry, that last was in reply to bringmesunshine.

I hid a few pregnant friends after I miscarried. But they would never have known as they remained on my list.

I think we need to be very careful actually to go down the route of thinking that just because someone has suffered a loss, any loss, that gives them justification to treat others however the hell they want. It doesn't.

Yes of course miscarriage is heartbreaking. Yes it is horrible to ttc unsuccessfully (I did so for around five years for my second child and was never successful). But while someone should be understanding of the fact especially if they are just pregnant at the time of the loss, they haven't actually done anything wrong.

It's not wrong to be pregnant.

It's not wrong to talk about being pregnant.

It's not wrong to be upset about having had a miscarriage.

But it is IMO wrong to start ending friendships over it and then expecting hose friends to accommodate and be supportive and understanding of that purely on the basis that there has been a miscarriage.

Because at some point that person may well fall pregnant again, and how understanding do you think they will be if the friends they once had no longer want to know on the basis they were snubbed for doing nothing wrong?

If someone is that deeply traumatised by something which is unfortunately so common as to affect one in six pregnancies under twelve weeks, they should be seeking professional help to deal with their issues, not expecting their friends to be obliterated out of their lives and to be understanding of that until such times as they feel they want to talk to them again.

Being pregnant is not a crime.

I agree with bringmesunshine, miscarriage/infertility is used as a justification for some seriously shocking behavior, ending friendships, refusing to go to or even letting your dh go to family gatherings? I suspect in fact people would be a lot more understanding and sympathetic if those going through it weren't quite so expectant of how other people should behave and understand. Pushing people away like that achieves nothing.

Talk to her, face to face would be preferable, but if thats not possible just email her ask after her tell your around if she wants to go for a coffee.

I don't blame you for feeling upset at being de-friended it's not nice. I can also understand how friend must be feeling, when I had a miscarriage and then couldn't seem to get pregnant at all and everyone around me seemed to be pregnant it felt gut wrenchingly awful.

She's lucky she has a friend who cares so much about her, don't write her off just yet, she may come round with time.

And congratulations on your pregnancy.

No one is saying the OP has done anything wrong wannaBe. FFS the woman who has had the miscarriage has deleted her from facebook, it's not like cutting her dead in the street. Facebook is utterly grim in this kind of situation (and I'm assuming it wasn't around when you were trying for your 2nd).

When the hell did we start measuring the strength of our relationships on facebook? I'm not friends with anyone I see in my day to day life on it. That doesn't mean I don't like them, just that I see them regularly so don't need to keep up with them online.

But since op hasn't actually asked the friend she has no idea if she is trying to end the friendship, did it by accident, needs some space or any other host of possible explanations!

And yes I do think that mc gives you the right to some strange grief-fuelled behaviour and I don't believe that everyone needs to seek therapy for it!

'tis also a little childish op to declare you're never using mumsnet again just because people disagree with you.

It was a deletion on Facebook wannabe and we don't know if she has ended the friendship entirely.

Nobody has said that her miscarriage gives her the right to treat others "however the hell she wants" but yes, she does have the right to keep or delete whoever she wants on her friends list. With or without a loss. It doesn't mean she has ended the friendship. And nobody has said that the OP is wrong to be pregnant either. Not even this friend who has deleted her, as far as we know.

It's not nice to be deleted from Facebook but it's not the end of the world either.

And again, there is no 'should' when you are dealing with the loss of a child. Maybe the friend would benefit from counselling but you are speaking as someone not in her situation. She may come to that conclusion on her own, given time, and a good friend will understand that perhaps she just needs some time in these early stages of her grief. She might not be thinking as clearly as you are right now.

You can't talk about how someone has lost a child 'should' behave and then complain that those same people are so expectant of how others 'should' treat them.

But it's not unreasonable to think that if your friend is grieving a very recent loss, you cut them a little bit of slack if they behave differently. Not forever, but for a short time, and try not to take a reaction to their grief personally.

I didn't treat my losses as a get out of jail free card that allowed me to behave badly. In fact looking back I think I went out of my way to make everyone else feel better about my loss and in return I was treated quite appallingly by some people and I do think that I could have expected better from them. Some of them were rude, offensive and cruel, others just insensitive and upsetting.

Everyone has their own limits and it's not uncommon for people suffering a recent loss to withdraw in the early stages. And it's not excusing bad behaviour or giving somebody the right to behave however the hell they want to say so.

YANBU - how hurtful. Yes, it may be a very hard time for you but that is not your fault! If she finds pregnancy status updates hard then she could always hide your updates from her news feed.

A very hard time for her*

Actually, I think deleting someone from facebook is a very clear indication that you no longer wish to socialise with them again, whether in RL or on the net....

is it?

Oh blimey.

Well I can't speak for everyone, I'm sure. But I would take it that way.

Sorry, I sounded rude. I was rude. I just don't get FB. It seems to me it has a very detrimental effect on communication. It actively enables people to be passive-aggressive. It actively encourages avoidance and bitching and mis-understanding, and just not talking face to face. And posting crap that people are probably not, in their heart of hearts very interested in.

I will stop banging on though.

but this isn't just about facebook, is it?

Yes the op has been deleted from facebook (and tbh I don't see that as a measure of friendship either, I deactivated my entire facebook account and certainly don't think that that means I've cut off 120 of my closest friends as a result.

But there are people on this thread saing that friends actively ended friendships with them because they fell pregnant after they'd had a mc, there's someone saying that when her sil was ttc she didn't come to family occasions and even forbade her husband from doing the same - for three years!

And no I certainly did not behave like that when I was ttc - why on earth would I? pregnancy is a fact of life. You can't avoid it, and expecting people to understand that someone might want to avoid pregnant women for an indeterminate amount of time is completely unreasonable.

What happens if the ttc'er never falls pregnant (as I didn't) does that give me the right to unfriend (in the real world, not facebook) all my friends on the basis they have second children and I don't? or to avoid family occasions because there might be children there and I would be upset by that? For how long should I be afforded this right to do what I want and treat others how I want on the basis I struggle with the fact I couldn't have another child?

Yes, of course you cut someone some slack in the early days after a miscarriage. And of course you have some understanding if someone is struggling to conceive. But this is not a one-way ticket. At some point people do need to start getting back to reality, and reality is that there are pregnant women out there, and babies, and children, and you have a choice to either let it take over your life or to get out there and face that.

Nobody has said otherwise wannabe, just that perhaps it is too soon for the OP's friend to start getting out there and facing it just yet.

And that rather than take it personally and seeing this as her friend rejecting her and her baby or blaming her for something, the OP might try to see this as a result of grief and either speak to her friend or wait this out.

If you deactivate your account it's different - otherwise you're showing by deleting selected people that you don't wish to socialise with them, specifically. Although people say oh it's just stupid facebook, it's really no different to blanking someone in the street. On the other hand OJ, I think you are absolutely correct in your observations about facebook. The only reason I keep mine is that I love to see pictures from friends and relatives that I otherwise would never see because they all live abroad. Passive aggressive updates are very annoying I agree and yes fb does encourage all that.

I find it sad that someone going through a hard time would want to push their friends away. Everyone has sad times in their lives - we lose people and things dear to us. I have never had a mc so obviously not in a position to understand fully but I'd like to hope I would never push my friends away in the event.

perceptionreality - yes, I would take it that way as well if it was someone who I thought of as a close friend (has happened to me) - especially when an email I subsequently sent (not mentioning the FB thing, just offering happy birthday wishes) was ignored. I don't see that person at all and have no contact with them, not through my choice, but hers. The biggest hint was when she moved house and didn't tell me the new address, but did tell everyone else we mutually knew. I still don't know why - but it's her loss, afaic.

OP - YANBU to be a bit hurt - but it sounds like it's a bit of a combination of both of you having hurt feelings. She didn't need to delete you, she could have just hidden your posts (I have done this with another friend who spends all her time just whittering on FB and it makes me irrationally cross).

So - do you think that perhaps your friend is feeling excluded by you? And as though you can't talk to her about anything? I know you were trying to spare her feelings but perhaps she's feeling like a bit of a social leper at the moment as far as you're concerned. The truth is, you can't second guess how anyone is going to react - some people who have MCs can't bear to hear about or be around pg people, some cope fine and some just put a good face on and cry at home. The best thing to do is to ask how they are feeling about it and whether or not they want to see you or hear about things related to the pg. If you have a good friendship, then honesty should not be a problem.

In the meantime, perhaps you should ask her about this and apologise for having almost being avoiding her - explain that you were trying to do the best for her feelings, not trying to deliberately exclude her.

Congratulations on your pg, by the way - hope it all goes well for you :)

She may not know that you can hide posts and therefore deleted for the timebeing.

Please don't feel bad, i have a dd nearly 5 and wanted a dc2, i had two mc and trouble conceiving. Reading friends pregnancy updates on FB used to be so hard, it used to be like a kick in the gut, i used to hide their posts as i found them so hard. Forward wind 3 years later we have just has a little ds now who is 2 weeks old. She is probably an emotional wreck. I used to find pregnancy announcements and updates on FB much harder than seeing other people's children, don't ask me why but I did, mabey this friend feels the same way, and has deleted you not because there is anything personal but she is in a dark place and feeling down right now and thats the only way she can be in control.

OP-yanbu. But at some point you will have to tell your friend that you are pg and give her some time if she is upset. I went through a simiar thing but my friend was ttc and had not had a mc. I told her i was pg (no 2) and she didnt talk to me for 6 months, it was before fb! We have spoken occasionally and i have seen her a handful of times but it has been more than 5yrs now. She did go on to have another child who is 4 now. Its very sad how friendships can be affected by pregnancy. Hopefully you and your friend will be ok congratulations on the pregnancy.

Yanbu. When I told one of my closest friends that I was pregnant, it was 18 months after her miscarraige. I was so nervous about the conversation, wanting to be sensitive to her, and I had carefully thought about how I would say it. She told me she knew I was going to say that then walked out. I totally understood. However that conversation was 3.5 years ago and I haven't seen her since. She sent me a christmas card that year and then a birthday card with no mention of dc1. I have gone over that conversation over and over in my mind ever since and whether I was insensitive. Eventually, for my sanity I just had to let it go. It was an awful way for a 13 year friendship to end but eventually I stopped blaming myself and thinking about it.

I have another close friend of 25 years (friends from school) who has been ttc for 5 years. She has distanced herself somewhat since I had children. I totally understand. She hasn't cut me off at least and I don't push it.