To think it is about time to stop being a Christian country.

[ShagOBite]

On the council prayers debate, lots of people have said "but we're a Christian country". Why are we? Should we be? How do we go about changing this? It seems so inappropriate and unnecessary in this day and age.

Non-Christians are more than welcome to attend church any time you like, carol singing or not. Even better is if you try more than one type of church, as alongside those you find dreadful (we all have those) you might even find one you think isn't too bad We might even give you a cup of (but obviously carol singing is more popular because you get free :o)

Everyone, PopcornBiscuit is trying to convert me! Help help.

You're all asking for it :o Seriously though, why on earth would RD at a carol service send anyone running for the hills? I'd love it if he turned up at our place, would liven things up for sure :o

The most aggressive, if that's what you'd call him, I prefer brutally honest, atheist you'd find is the late Christopher Hitchens. I miss him so

His picture was linked waaay upthread.

Another atheist who likes carols here

It is why I wouldn't go for a really hardcore version of secularism with no religious symbols allowed at all, as in US schools where you can only sing Frosty The Snowman etc...

I think it should be up to schools and their communities to decide which traditions they want to draw on, not for the church to impose it, or the state to ban it.

I like carols.

This has all got a bit nice and agreement heavy. So, we're keeping the carols. Does anyone disagree?

Can we change some of the lyrics? Some of them are a bit lame

Nope sorry, I disagree

Not in schools, no way, just as nonsensical as praying some of them, if you want them go to church.

I agree you can't do it at schools I thought the question was about voluntary carol singing not a forced thing.

Oh, I'd keep carols, along with nativity plays as cultural tradition.

Its the creator god hymns that bug me; maybe I'd let them keep All Things Bright and Beautiful if they'd balance it with the (I usually just link the lyrics... you might not want to watch this if you've just eaten)

I have never got through the line about "the purple headed mountain" without giggling like a schoolboy - that one is a keeper!

I agree carols, nativity, trees, Santa etc... all ok as a common tradition. Doesn't mean you have to do nativity every year, but no harm doing it once in a while, or having Eid parties at school.

Most songs in school are nonsensical notfluffy - broadbeans sleeping in their blankety beds

The song I hate is that one about Jesus is the Water of LIfe. There is no need for that. But Xmas carols, cards, trees are culture.

I am ever so grateful to our great leaders in the N.S.S for their indulgent bounty in allowing us to retain at least some carols and the occasional nativity play - of course only for cultural reasons and maybe not every year. Any chance the great NSS leaders would possibly consider the odd prayer in public and that maybe the schools might keep their chrisitan names - perhaps of course only every second one. We promise to double our efforts on the tractor production line.

You're welcome jumjum. We'll even throw in permission to wear a cross around your neck, provided it doesn't dangle into the production line conveyor belt. But don't forget to tighten the left-hand thrunging sprockets. You know what happened last time you forgot.

No crosses on duty, I'm objecting!

Yes YABU. This is a Christian country - that isn't inappropriate. In fact I find your views of Christianity disrespectful. When I go overseas I respect the religion of the land and think people here should do the same.

I think it is ridiculous when you hear Christmas being called anything other than that. In schools, if there are enough children who follow different religions, celebrate their festivals too and respect different religions.

Religion doesn't merit respect; it's just another opinion (that there is some or other supernatural being that can't be seen but is there, reeeeaaalllly...). That doesn't mean people should be prevented from engaging in religious activity, just that other people are under no obligation to listen to them or take them seriously when they are doing so. Of course you have a right to believe in your gods, the same as you have a right to read your horoscope, support a football team or wear your pants over your trousers if you want to. But other people have the right to ignore you, go about their business without being interrupted or inconvenienced by you, and indeed to laugh at you or disagree with what you believe.

Jumjum -

Schools can keep whatever name they and their governors like.

I had my kids at St Thomas's Hospital. They didn't check whether I went to church before they let me in, and they didn't expect me to pray.

Look if schools and parents and teachers and kids all want to pray so badly the law, ofsted and all that wouldn't be needed to enforce it.

Why not let schools and parents decide for themselves what they want to do?

I suspect the NSS is two blokes and a photocopier. I doubt it quite lives up to your fantasies.

When I go to other countries I respect their religions and traditions too. However, I was born and brought up in the UK so unlike Morocco or Thailand, I get a say in things.

Pah, Christian country?
It barely effects most people's day to day life, no idea why people get so angsty about it.

Non issue.

BTW notfluffyatall you really are not fluffy AT ALL. Good for you

'If there are more of Islam faith than any other in the UK then it is going to become the dominant culture and probably the dominant religion'

No. that is not correct. It may, (in fact quite probably will, unless there is a truly massive resurgence in Christian practising and church attending) eventually become the dominant religion, but it is highly highly unlikely to ever become the dominant culture. Why? Because there are many, many more millions of us in the UK who do not practice a religion either way, so whilst the influence of Islam may well grow exponentially due to the high birth rate among more recent Muslim immigrants as well as a generally higher birth rate among the long-settled Muslim population, it will not take over to the point where it is part of our cultural collective psyche.

Not unless 50 million heathens all stop having children at all, or bugger off to live somewhere else.