To think it is about time to stop being a Christian country.

[ShagOBite]

On the council prayers debate, lots of people have said "but we're a Christian country". Why are we? Should we be? How do we go about changing this? It seems so inappropriate and unnecessary in this day and age.

If Christianity really was 'faith held by the majority of people in this country' then surely the same high proportion of children would know about Easter anyway from their home life, (and then some more would pick this up at school). Blaming RE lessons because the parents (shhh) aren't really christians is spectacularly missing the point.

Exactly, Himalaya.

People have a tendency to call themselves Christian because it hasn't actually dawned on them that when pushed, it is ok to say they have no faith, and they feel obliged to say they belong somewhere. And because historically and culturally most Britons identify with basic Christian values. But that doesn't really make them Christians. It's a cultural identity more than a religious one.

On the contrary OP, we shoud return to our roots. Christianity is the principal religion of the UK and as well as being the foundation for religious teachings, it also provides the morals, values and principals that have got lost. I am not particularly religious but at school and home I was taught right from wrong and values such as respect. These are missing these days in people of all ages.

There is too much emphasis on other religions in school, to the point where a friends dc barely touched on Christianity in RE and delved into every other religion.

Christianity is part of the heritage and traditions of the UK. We should welcome other peoples religions. But not to the detriment of Christianity. A classic example would be banning any form of sharia law in the UK.

We are a Christian country. We are not a multicultural country .... All attempts to be one have failed.

Britain will stop being a Christian country it's just a matter of when it happens - a census return/population projection on stated religion will probably give you a rough idea. Christians are increasingly in the minority I believe so unless something happens to make large amounts of people find God/the Christian faith those traditional 'Christian' values mentioned will lessen over time and things will shift/church lose it's status/symbolism etc.

But cookcleaner you are speaking as if it is essential to have a label of one religion or another in order to be able to function as a nation and that just isn't so. This is not an argument for/against allowing Islam to take over, or for any other relgion for that matter - it is just not necessary for the state to assign a religion to the nation. People who want to susbcribe to Christianity or indeed any faith can and will do so, regardless. It is a deeply personal thing - not a collective/cultural requirment.

A Mori poll commissioned by the Richard Dawkins Foundation has come up with a result of only 54% of people now ticking the Christian box on the 2011 census, a massive drop from the 2001 census. A further question in the poll found that of that 54% only 10% used religion as a moral guide. Only a third of the 54% cited religious belief as their reason for ticking. So those banging on about 70% need to stop, there is a strong indication that it's nowhere near that.

cookcleaner - it will be the secularists who defend the UK against any introduction of Sharia law. Not the CofE, if the [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7232661.stm Archbishop of Canterbury]] is anything to go by.

It may be that in this increasingly post-christian age, the curriculum needs adjusting to more explicitly cover our Christian cultural heritage. I find that when I read classic fiction to my DD I need to explain things which I'd have just known at her age. Some of this may be more appropriately covered in English Literature and History than RE itself, but it needs to be there.

There is nothing about teaching morality that requires a state religion. And the Bible makes a very poor source for teaching morality anyway as a) it is open to all sorts of interpretation and b) it's full of examples of flat-out morally repugnant behaviour on the part of god.

When the di the last census they trialled some different layouts in different parts of the country. The majority had the standard layout with C of E at the top option on the religious question and some "trial layouts" had "no faith" as the top option.

The trial layout had a far far higher non religious return rate than the standard layout. I know loads of people who when asked "what is your religion" will say "C of E" but when asked "do you believe in god and go to church" they say "no". Basically people (for reason unknown to me) like making it clear that they are non-immigrant anglosaxon - which is a bit worrying in my personal opinion!

"a secular schooling system would stop this happening"

How, exactly? OFSTED looks at all schools, many of which have no religious affiliation already.

I can appreciate that some people are frightened of Islam becoming the dominant or even official religion of the UK. I would fight hard against that myself; all religions are shit and toxic to women and the version of Islam peddled by the ones most likely to seek power is a very nasty one.

However, a strongly secular construction to the state is a better way of preventing too much power being siezed by Islam (or Judaism, or voodoo) than a constitution which insists that superstition is necessary and has official backing.

"a secular schooling system would stop this happening"

A properly secular system would, because there would be 'no privelige, no discrimination' - so of course Christianity would get fair airtime in RE alongside other religions, humanism etc. What we have now isn't ideal.

Yes - would those who think it is right that Christianity should be given special privileges in society be so keen if those rights were accorded to ALL religions?

Are the census results available online yet? Curious to know what the percentage defining themselves a Muslim is. My guess is that the numbers would show that the fear of Islam becoming dominant is wildly alarmist (well, provided that the tendency to totally ignore people of no faith is avoided.)

If there are more of Islam faith than any other in the UK then it is going to become the dominant culture and probably the dominant religion in time. I think the statistics & projections show that in 50 years or so this will be the case? An inevitable shift. A secular, multi-cultural society sounds like the best outcome to me with harmony and power balanced evenly between all.

Cortina - do you have any reference for those projections please? What I'm interested in is whether they predict more muslims than active christians or more than 50% of the total population, or what.

I read something that stated Muslims would eventually make up the majority of the population of the UK based on projected family sizes/growth of Muslim population over others or something like that.

There are some really alarmist projections out there about islam. Mostly created by racists and bigots. I believe at the moment the percentage of our population that are muslim is about 2%. In order to get a realistic view of what that means for our society one should bear in mind that only a small fraction of that 2% are extremists, the vast majority of muslims in this country are hard working, law abiding, moderate citizens just like the vast majority of any group.

At least I'm bigoted about all religion

Quite, notfluffyatall, I googled and got a lot of BNP type claptrap trying to find what I'd read before.

I did find that the Muslim population is growing in the UK, that the Muslim population had doubled between 2003 and 2009 or something like that. Also from a BBC news article: Islam is widely considered Europe's fastest growing religion, with immigration and above average birth rates leading to a rapid increase in the Muslim population.

If this is the case and more Muslims are being born than Christians etc then unless something dramatically changes Islam will be the dominant region in time? I don't see any reason for fear, it's just a change.

religion, even :) What I meant to say was unless something changes Islam will be the dominant religion in Europe in time. From what I've read Muslims are more likely to be more serious about their faith so this will mean things will inevitably change in time. Not for the worst IMO I might add. I believe the figures speak for themselves.

Quite a lot of Muslims who immigrate are doing so precisely because they don't want to live in Islamic 'theocracies'.

Projections based on birth rates are always cobblers. Because most immigrants tend towards the new countries' birth rate within one generation. Thinking that the granddaughter of an immigrant is going to have 9 children just like her grandmother is misunderstanding inter-generational change.

To those who worry about Islam. The most of Islam is extremism and terrorism, similarly of Christianity. I wouldn't want those gay people hating 'Christians' in the US coming to funerals here. The crusades, the Spaish Inquisition... Apart from Communists (who killed everyone and banned everything) the worst militant extremist atheist anyone can come up with is Richard Dawkins. Hardly sounds like the fundamentalist head of a movement which will eradicate religion (and, by extension, morality).

His eyebrows can kill a man from 100 yards!

(am I taking my atheist lord's name in vain? Oh, sorry, wrong thread)

the worst militant extremist atheist anyone can come up with is Richard Dawkins.

Who, as I've already mentioned, considers himself a 'Cultural Christian' and likes singing Christmas Carols. Run for the hills, ye people of faith!

haven't rtft

separate church and state

we are not children

Grimma I'm with RD. I love a good carol singing.