To think it is about time to stop being a Christian country.

[ShagOBite]

On the council prayers debate, lots of people have said "but we're a Christian country". Why are we? Should we be? How do we go about changing this? It seems so inappropriate and unnecessary in this day and age.

I have no religion and I celebrate Christmas. I also celebrate Eid, because I have some Muslim family and friends and celebrated Hanukkah this year with my Jewish friends. I've been at lunar festivals and Diwali. I would celebrate anything up to animal sacrifice because it's fun and human to do so. I hate the image of joyless atheists who cross their arms and won't join in. I see no issue at all with this. Particularly as Christmas has lights (pagan), trees inside (Christian and pagan), overeating (definitely not Christian), it is in December (pagan). We are a hodge podge and all the better for it.

The Council worker... you can argue that he was making a mountain out of a molehill but why should praying be on the agenda of a meeting of a public body? THAT is what is ridiculous.

You are always accused of making a big deal when you complain about a few Christian prayers - try suggesting the Christains join in with some pagan, Hindu, Muslim & Jewish prayers every week and then we'll see who is being a wee bit precious.

France does have a lot of Christian history behind it, leading to the underlying values it has kept, even though it's now a secular state.

Are there differences in cultural values, between countries with a lot of Christian history behind them and those without? How many countries with no Christianity behind them have adopted similar ethics?

But how about our country changing as people born and bred here want something different?

But I do.think if the councillors wanted to pray let them.

LOL! I was brought up Christain but like many didn't stay that way - this is my country, I know no other...sometimes you have to move with the times...and that is no new thing!

Um, I think I'm going to report your rude borderline racist post. I was born in the UK, my family goes back generations in the UK and I have every right to question how it is run. That is called DEMOCRACY. Even if I wasn't British born and bred, I would have a right to engage in discussion because that is called DEMOCRACY. As soon as someone pays taxes and can vote, join the debate because why not?

mamLou you sound charming

But I do.think if the councillors wanted to pray let them.
They can. They just can't force other people to be unwilling participants.

I want a properly secularised Britain, where there is neither discrimination nor privelige based on faith or lack thereof.

I am fed up with my dcs having to pray in assembly - I'm none too keen on someone telling me to bow my head when I attend my dc's parents assembly - we are not Christian - I do not support the Christian faith - I'll respect religion when it respects me and stays well clear of my life!

And I love how peeps always mention Easter and Christmas as Christian holidays - as if!

A state church is really part of Britain's history and identity, it is what we are. Every other country in Europe I can think of has separation of church and state - why do we we have to be a bland copy of them? Britain should be proud of her heritage.

Anyway, praying isn't uniquely Christian is it? I suspect it is really just militant atheists who get upset about this kind of thing.

Of course they are toffeetip :) Yes some of the aspects were influenced by pagan traditions but so what? Lots of religions and festivals have things in common at certain times of year. It doesn't remove the Christian significance of the birth and resurrection of Jesus, which is what Christians are celebrating.

"And I love how peeps always mention Easter and Christmas as Christian holidays - as if!"

Britain's history is so much more than the Christian stuff....

Militant? probably! I just want to be free from religious crap - is that really too much to ask? Surely religious folk would rather worship in an environment that voluntarily respects their views or is choice unreasonable?

I don't object to Christians celebrating their faith with others - I do object to Christians imposing their faith on others.

Why should religion stay well clear of anyone's life? Atheists and secularists don't stay clear of ours, and have a huge influence on our society, so much so that it's not noticed as it's now the default. Surely in the secular state some advocate, there would be a rich tapestry of various beliefs and no belief. This means that all of us will be coming across things we believe in and things we don't. Freedom of speech and religious expression is obviously going to include having to listen to things we don't agree with from time to time, or having them promoted to us.

Who has "imposed" their faith on you toffeetip? You're quite free in this country to openly decline to become a Christian :)

I'm not so sure the majority actively disrespect their views, toffeetip.

Agree with popcorn about Christmas and Easter. Of course they are Christian. Maybe Pagan traditions have become associated with them, but that doesn't change the fact. Many people claim to be celebrating Christmas and Easter in all kinds of grotesque ways, but they are in essence still festivals celebrating Christ's birth, and death and resurrection.

Oh no pagan winter and spring festivals came before the Christians who tagged their festivals on to the pagan festvals - please get your time line right! People have celebrated winter and spring festivals for centuries before the Christains....the times might be changing-Christians may soon realise and accept that they are in the minority.

we had to pray at school when i was a kid (80's kid). i thought it was odd since it was a secular school. but we were told to pray in our own way. so christians had hands together, muslims in a cup like fashion etc, and it u did t want to gesture in anyway there was no compulsion. i think thats the main issue. these christian councillors arent compelling other members to worship are they?

I think it's sad that when people raise perfectly reasonable objections to special privileges being afforded to just one faith that they are accused of being "militant atheists".

Yes I do realise paganism pre-dates Christianity - Christmas and Easter are however Christian. People are free to celebrate as they want! Perhaps for many people, pagan elements or more modern consumerist obsessions have sadly overshadowed the true significance of Christmas and Easter. That doesn't mean that they are not Christian though.

snorbs by all means raise objections, but I can't help thinking that people who really get upset about assembly on schools, prayers in council meetings etx, to the point of campaigning and bringing a legal action, do not represent the majority. I think justanuther's description of praying at school is probably representative of the style of prayer in most schools and councils. As I said earlier, prayer is integral to many faiths, not just Christianity, and it is perfect.y possible to pray in a way that unites people. If there is no compulsion to pray, what do even the atheists object to?

Midwinter and spring festivals long predate the advent of christianity, and the church appropriated these times to more easily convert people who would not so easily give up their festivities. Easter is a pagan name, still. I thought it was generally accepted that Jesus's birth wasn't in midwinter.

Prayer unites people? Religions divide people...think on balance we'd be better off without the dividing side of things - do you think the religious types could sort that out before preaching to us the uniting power of their prayer - it has hardly worked so far!