not to have a plan about baby crying..

[stella1w]

He's seven months.. cries a bit before naps, but goes off quite quickly. At night, another story.. down at 7.30pm, forty mins later awake, I settle him, down for 30 mins, awake.. He's been crying now for about forty mins. Not loudly, just kind of grizzling, but it doesn't sound like he's getting any sleepier.. Usually I would just go in and lie down with him to get him to go back to sleep but if I do that now, I won't get up again for the evening and I am fed up with going to be so early with the house in chaos. I'm not in favour of cry it out, but at a practical level, I don't think I can carry on like this every evening.

Every baby is different, my son grizzling would result in a full blown over tired crying for 2-3 hours so had to pick him up and put back down.

My dd was opposit she wanted to be left alone to grizzle

Stella - its not always easy to know what's for the best. I'm not in favour of CIO either and nurse to sleep and co-sleep. But I do understand the wanting to ha e an evening sorting other stuff like the house. Can you feed him to sleep and creep put of the room or does he sense when you leave? My 4 year old still co sleeps (tho past few nights he hasnt as we are on holiday and He's sharing bedroom with dh, but I miss him ). Dd is 3 months and feeds to sleep and co sleeps usually in cot next to bed (but on holiday in with me ).

I know it sounds stupid but was your ds's nappy ok? Or is he teething or feeling cold?

I am surprised at how many posters think its ok to leave a Baby grizzling for so long when a baby is very poorly it sometimes can't cry properly. Also of a baby isn't happy, you should comfort them. Bizarre to think otherwise IMO

I didn't 'let' ds cry for long time at 7mo but sometimes he refused to settle and we always stayed with him & tried to settle him, sometimes he fed to sleep. That said at about 9mo-10mo he stopped feeding to sleep, and just cried due to tiredness. I got sick of spending 1-2 hrs every night settling him & eating so late & it wasn't going to work when I went back to work as he'd need an earlier bed time. Then I left him to cry and miracle of miracles he was asleep after 15mins of being left alone, soooo much better than 2 hrs + of crying in our company! It soon got much better and we now know he needs a bit of a grizzle sometimes for a few mins before settling. He's 18mo & he's a good sleeper now. Just hang on in there, if your dc feeds to sleep for now go with it, in the future you'll find ways to get him to self settle. Things change a lot over next few months with teething & sleep regression (9months - yuk). Then it will even out & get better. HTH

Mama, I guess her other option is to have babies sleeping with parents for years...fed to sleep who cannot settle themselves...holidaying and sleeping in separate rooms from her husband...

I can totally understand op need to have an evening, and for wanting her baby to learn to manage bedtime better. He is clearly capable if naps work well. A helping shush pat might do it OP and save the long nights for teething as those will keep you busy!!

There was a really good Mumsnet chat on infant sleep with a woman who used to study primates, had a baby, and moved to infants. She's an academic specialising in the subject - a Professor of Anthropology and Director of the sleep lab at Durham University, so not some random Child Expert with a book to sell. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_live_events/980577-Live-webchat-with-sleep-expert-Dr-Helen-Ball-Tuesday-15th

Coraltoes - do you read the DM? sorry was too busy nursing my almost 12 year old to sleep in my bed....

Just because a mother nursing her 7 month old to sleep and cosleeps doesn't mean that will happen forever and it's a bit fucking ignorant and daily mailish to assume that is the case. Kids grow and change. And if they feel more secure at a young age (ie needs met which includes emotional) then they are likely to be more secure and confident. We all do what we can and to each their own. OP has said she doesn't want to to CIO and IMHO good for her.

Coral my dd is 3 months. And you know what, her needs come first. Not that it is your business. My dh and quite happy with set up here. Actually all my kids needs are my priority as they are my dh. So quit your sarcasm and bitching and kindly fuck off

"Mama, I guess her other option is to have babies sleeping with parents for years...fed to sleep who cannot settle themselves...holidaying and sleeping in separate rooms from her husband..."

According to the actual, y'know, scientific data that's cobblers. (I [[http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_live_events/980577-Live-webchat-with-sleep-expert-Dr-Helen-Ball-Tuesday-15th linked to someone who researches the subject.) If you know better than Durham uni, they'd be enthralled to hear it.

Obviously sleep needs to work for everyone in the family, and a knackered, depressed mother is not going to be ideal so whichever route avoids that (be it co-sleeping or controlled crying) is best for that family, but is it really necessary to attack choices different to yours in such a categorical, dismnissive manner? Are you really that insecure in your own parenting? Honestly, loving parents generally do okay. People don't all have to do the exact same thing to childrear well. I never left my DS to cry - okay, I did once - in the first 18 months. Fed on demand. We co-slept in that time as well. He self-settles well in his own bed at 3, and has done since that 18 month point. You didn't, and got the same result. Lovely. They both work.

Coraltoes I assumed they were sleeping in separate rooms as they were in a hotel, and you wouldn't leave small children in a separate hotel room?
(Or maybe everyone else does, I don't know what's normal anymore!)

I can link. Honest, I can.

Disclaimer -I am not still nursing my ds1(who's almost 12) and we do not cosleep (he would steal all the duvet and he snores)

Op also says she doesn't want to lie down with him, so suggesting co sleeping doesn't quite fit the bill either. and you say your DS does it aged 4... So it does seem to go on for a while by your own example.

I don't read the DM. I just don't subscribe to the more softly softly parenting some mnetters Seem to foist on others as the only alternative. Op has stated clearly she wants her evenings back!

I really can't believe so many people leave babies, under a year, to grizzle. Why don't you want to cuddle/ lie with them? My dd3 is nearly two, she is not left to cry for more than 30 seconds, really, I pick her up nd cuddle/feed her, simple, she goes back to sleep and I do it again, sometimes twice in the evening and agin during the night.

They will be at school in a blink of an eye, really what's the issue with keeping them nearby and settled for such a few short years. Babies don't like to be alone. It's instinct.

Dd2 would have been in my arms being BF to sleep til about 9pm at that age.
(her big sister went to bed at 8pm, then we settled down for a hug).
I've no idea what planet the OP lives on, but it's not mine.

"Softly softly parenting" for me is responding to your child's needs. That's fine by me. If the alternative is what? Leaving a 7 months old. Leary unhappy for best part of an hour?

Yes my 4 year old ds2 still co sleeps. He even breastfed till he was 3 years and 10 months. He stopped as soon as dd arrived. He hasn't felt ready to stop cosleeping and for him, this holiday is first time he has and a lovely step for him. But that is my family and it works for us. Andclearly cosleeping has precluded my and Dhs relationship being that we have a new baby. And I know it won't go on forever.

My post to the OP wasn't in anyway telling her what to do, and I believe I actually sympathised and wast judgemental. However Coraltoes, you have been very judgmental of how my family dynamics are and you don't have the knowledge (clearly) or the right to judge.

I'm sorry coraltoes, are your reading comprehension skills in some way impaired? Mama said:

"But I do understand the wanting to ha e an evening sorting other stuff like the house. Can you feed him to sleep and creep put of the room or does he sense when you leave?"

And you saw that as "foisting" co-sleeping on the OP?

And clearly cosleeping hasn't precluded not has. Stupid phone

Have you got one of those lightshows that fix on to the side of the cot?

They play music and light the ceiling up for ten minutes, my 1yr old is nearly always asleep before its finished, and on the occasions he isnt and hes having a meltdown, I go back in the room, quick cuddle and I switch it back on.

Its one of the best pieces of plastic tat I ever bought.

not all babies need human contact to sleep. neither of mine did, they didn't/don't give a hoot if I was nearby whilst they fell asleep.

grizzling is NOT full on crying and op said it kept sounding like it was trailing off.

They play music and light the ceiling up for ten minutes, my 1yr old is nearly always asleep before its finished, and on the occasions he isnt and hes having a meltdown, I go back in the room, quick cuddle and I switch it back on.

Its one of the best pieces of plastic tat I ever bought."

Oooh yes! DS had a Tiny Love Symphony in Motion and LOVED it. Was an excellent buy; he'd go down and watch when I had a bath or something and just gaze and coo, entranced. He used the musical part without the mobile until he was 2, as well.

Agree not all babies need contact - a friend had 2 who did, and then the 3rd used to wail until she put him down! Took her a while to twig as he was so different to the 1st 2.

The thing is, when someone suggests co-sleeping, and then goes onto say that they're still doing it with their DC aged 4, it can really freak people, who the fear that it'll never stop, out... :(

I co-slept with mine when they were tiny but around 4 months of age, started settling them into Moses baskets next to my bed with me touching them until they slept, and then without the touching, and then eventually, post 6 months into their own beds - all a very gradual process. So I have no issue with co-sleeping.

But for some people, there is a very real fear that their bed and their, um, conjugal relations will be foresaken for years and years by taking the co-sleeping route.

There are so many threads here written by sleep-deprived parents at their wits end asking how they get their baby or more likely toddler to self-settle and to sleep for longer periods (which absolutely requires the ability to self-settle), and to my mind it makes sense to do it earlier rather than later. And by earlier, I do not mean leaving a young baby to CIO.

I am all for co-sleeping, as I say I did it myself (as a breastfeeder, it is sort of part and parcel), but I have to be honest and say, I would just disregard such advice from someone who was still doing it at 4 years of age, as that would be my very fear. Just sticking up for coraltoes a bit.

OP - what is the rest of his day like?

What time does he wake? When does he nap and how long for?

Maybe he's not ready for sleep at 7.30 because of too long day time naps, or is maybe over-tired then because of not enough?

Just trying to establish if he's tired enough (but not too tired!) to actually go down at that time. IME sleep begets sleep so good day time naps actually help night time sleep, but if the afternoon nap is too long or finishes too late it might impact on him being ready to sleep at that time.

Thanks stinking my experiences should be just disregarded! I ha e 3 dc. First coslept (same room in cot for year) and is almost 12 and never had an issue over bedtime ever. My ds2 is a different. child and has different needs. He doesn't fuss at bedtime but still needs that closeness and with a new baby I'm not going to push him out. Dd (3 months) sleeps in cot next to bed usually. I have no idea what she's going to be like. One glove does not fit all and all children are different. However if my child was upset for almost an hour I don't think I could leave them

Look, I'm just saying the idea of a 4-YO in my bed... If someone gave me a 'solution' to a problem, but that was the actual outcome? Just no. I'm sorry.

Yes, I would disregard it, because I simply wouldn't want to risk that eventuality. Call me a bad, uncaring mother if you must.

My dd was fed to sleep and we co-slept for about six months every night. She then decided she preferred her own space for sleeping, but still fed to sleep until she was about 13 months and weaned from the breast. Doesn't have to last forever, but sometimes it is just easier if you have a difficult to settle baby. I perfected feeding her to sleep and then ninja rolling silently off the bed when she was fast asleep.