We are being watched !!

[domesticgodessintraining]

A friend just called from the Middle East to say that the bored desperate housewives of Dubai are slagging us off ........

www.expatwoman.com/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=171798

Well as a Christian your nanny doesn't really have to adapt that much to being in your home, as Christians are not big on rules, and are offended by very little, in terms of food, and living practices.

And a Muslim may not find too much to be offended by in an Orthodox Jewish household as keeping Kosher and keeping Halal have much in common.

However, a devout Muslim or Jew may not like living in my Godless heathen home, and I don't really want to have to adapt too much, because after all - why would I? A maid is supposed to make life more convenient, not less. Which is why, should I want a live-in maid, I might look for a Filipina who would come without these issues.

But as I said - I don't care, so long as they were happy to accept that we live as we live.

As I am not in the UK I can stipulate exactly what I like, actually. But I wouldn't, because I don't mind.

I would however stipulate that they must be happy to watch me eat pork, drink alcohol and snog my dog. Many people do stipulate though - and not necessarily for reasons that are sinister or racist, although inevitably that too -sometimes.

Oh, and I would not make my maid wear the uniform. They are demeaning. They look like concentration camp outfits.

Have you seen the uniforms here? Obviously not! Again - I mean this in the nicest possible way, it's pointless trying to discuss some of this stuff with people who have little idea of what it's actually like here! It's natural to project your opinions based on how things are in the UK, but this isn't the UK and you'd spontaneously combust after three months if you tried to insist on your own culture's rules and values being applied to everything.

Mrsm no I don't agree with discrimination. I do however believe that there are a limited number of settings in which employers should be permitted to specify religion or gender of the employee.

I

Re not taking a job i am not sure that is true. There is a difficulty in relation to employing domestic staff (housemaid/nanny/driver) in that once someone has secured employment and been sponsored it is difficult to break that contract on either side.

This has financial implications as it costs in the region of £2K to complete the paperwork which would then be lost but also practical implications in that if you do break the contract you are prevented from rehiring within a 12 mth period.

There is therefore an issue regarding people agreeing to terms and conditions and then once "secure" failing to fulfil those knowing that they will almost certainly keep their job.

'There is therefore an issue regarding people agreeing to terms and conditions and then once "secure" failing to fulfil those knowing that they will almost certainly keep their job.'

Yes, exactly. Thank you Sara. And given what I said about a cultural reluctance to say no when asked a direct question, it is important to remove all areas of ambiguity or doubt beforehand - as much as you ever can.

MrsM of course I think FGM is utterly abhorrent - about as abhorrent as any cultural or religious practice gets. It is difficult when criticising things which form an intrinsic part of another's culture - when does it stop being a criticism of the practice itself and start being criticism of the culture? When does it tip into racism or religious intolerance/hatred? I had some comments deleted earlier this year because I said that certain common cultural practices in the Irish Traveller and Gypsy communities disgusted me. Apparently that is the same as saying they disgust me, which is racist. Ironically, some of the people criticising cultural and societal norms in the ME on this thread would have been the first to jump on me and call me a Daily Mail reading bigot on that one!

Someone said I made a bad analogy earlier on in this thread, and I'll say the same to you. FGM is a bad anology in the context of what we are discussing here. FGM involves the horrific assault and violation of a small child who has absolutely no say in the matter. I don't think there is much of a comparison. And besides, an Orthodox Jew I think bringing circumcision into the equation as an example of an intolerable practice puts you on a bit of a sticky wicket.

An increasing rate of maid abuse in the Arab world has raised concerns over the absence of strict laws that regulate the relationship between employers and domestic help and triggered calls for the necessity of imposing deterrent penalties.

According to a survey conducted by the Saudi magazine Sayidaty, more than three million maids in the Arab world are living in deplorable conditions and more incidents of verbal and physical abuse are reported.

According to the survey entitled ?Maids? Rights,? to be published in Saturday?s issue, there are around two million maids in Saudi Arabia while in several cases in the UAE, the number of maids sometimes exceeds the number of family members as maids are considered a sign of wealth.

In Bahrain, the number of maids exceeds 79,000 while in Kuwait their number is estimated at 660,000. In Egypt, there are 177 domestic help offices, only three of which are licensed.

The survey includes stories of maid abuse in different parts of the Arab world. For example a woman cut her maid?s lips and scalp and several parts of her body.

The magazine editorial staff also met with several maids who were imprisoned in their employers? homes in the UAE and were constantly being harassed and sometimes forced to engage in sexual activities.

www.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/01/20/134309.html

The comments are interesting

In most European and Western Hemisphere countries, there are clear laws protecting maids and employers. The level of " abuse " is very small considering the tens of millions of maids employed. Why the problem in the Middle East. Let's be honest. Maids are women, And certain attitudes about women exist there.

HillyWallaby
Again - I mean this in the nicest possible way, it's pointless trying to discuss some of this stuff with people who have little idea of what it's actually like here! It's natural to project your opinions based on how things are in the UK, but this isn't the UK

couldn't agree more, HW.

So it is pointless us dicussing the Human Rights issues in the UAE because we don't know what it's really like?

MrsM the uniforms I dislike so much are generally NOT worn by the maids of expats. (fill in the deliberate blanks yourself! ) As a general rule we 'Westereners' do not find the need to use such an obvious marker to show the world that the woman standing next to us in the supermarket is not our friend, but in fact the person who cleans our toilets. I would hope most of us have more sensitivity and respect than that.

Do you give your helper a uniform then?

'Westereners' do not find the need to use such an obvious marker to show the world that the woman standing next to us in the supermarket is not our friend, but in fact the person who cleans our toilets. I would hope most of us have more sensitivity and respect than that.

Hahah I had forgotten about the western expats that take their maid to the supermarket.... how sad!!!

BM shall we ignore every publication that?s ever been written, discount opinions of people that have lived, holidayed or have friends there. I think you need to take your head out of the sand !!

Porto that comment was about maids uniforms for goodness sake!

But yes, sometimes it is a bit pointless. Take Hunty's comment that we are exploiting anyone here if we don't pay them the going rate for same job in the UK. Seriously - what a joke! That kind of comment is so smug and naive and ill-thought-through that it barely warrants engaging with.

We don't get paid the same as in the UK. We get paid in the local currency. This is not the UK!

Actually Bijou, in all honesty I rarely see that. Most of the maids in the shops are trailing round after an Arab and you know it. I just used the supermarket as an example because it is the most obvious place where you might be seen together out in public with a maid.

But what is wrong with taking them? Really? Are they not there to help with domestic chores? Should they stay totally shackled to the house until Friday? You are just being deliberately provocative now and adding nothing to the debate.

All i seem to pick up from the posts is that "we treat our maid ok and enable her to buy land in her home country" I have no issue with this. It's the rest of the set up there that I have an issue with. The misogyny, the sex trafficking, the money laundering and the slave labour bits for example. I don't need to go there to see how "lovely" it is REALLY. I am sure it is lovely - on the surface at least - for expats.

Porto if that is all the discussion was about then I doubt you'd get many of us bothering to challenge you. We are not stupid. We know what goes on. It's stuff that probably goes on in three quarters of the world though - we just don't hear about it there so much because people don't really go there.

But it's the way the contempt is directed at us that irritates. If people want to talk about the bigger issues then fine - but why start citing EW threads that go 'my maid chipped my favourite mug - should I thrash her 6 times or 12?' They are very often caricatures, wind-ups, or people just venting a bit of frustrated steam - much like our threads on MN where we rant about DH's inability to stack the dishwasher logically - it means nothing! But if people are coming over as being spoilt and superior then they get put soundly in their place. Also some people have grown up in cultures where having full-time help in the home is perfectly normal for those who can afford it, but others are doing it for the first time and are worried about getting it wrong.

But one thing they are all doing is employing someone who really needs and wants the work. So lets hope they are not bullied into stopping by some of the smug comments on here by people who think they understand everything because they once read an article in the Guardian.

In fairness porto that is how this thread started: posters bitching about/ ridiculing the employment of maids. I and a number of other posters tried to give an accurate reflection of the reality of employing domestic workers, hence most of the posts relating to that particular aspect of life in the ME.

From there on in the thread descended into general Dubai bashing, along with bashing the people that choose to live there. As it has gone on I have tried to correct some of the more ridiculous assertions: being spat at for wearing short sleeves, arrested for holding hands, permission to leave country because you are a woman etc etc. I am unclear as to whether people actually care whether these things aren't true or whether they simply enjoy being in possession of a stick with which to beat regardless of the accuracy of the statements on which they choose to rely.

If you want a discussion about ML, trafficking and slave labour there is certainly one to be had. I know more about the first, the detection and prosecution of the same being my area of expertise. Some about the latter. The fact is things are changing and quickly. ML regulations are in place and the DIFC is active. Penalties are harsh. But the UAE is a new country, with unimaginable wealth, it boomed quickly and legislation is playing catch up with events but it is happening.

Actually, my maid would have loved to come out with us more, to the supermarket, restraunts etc, but selfishly I preferred generally to be out and about on my own. Locals tend to take their maids everywhere with them and it looks to western eyes quite strange but wonder if the maid actually prefers getting out and being included. The uniform MrsM linked is hideous, why would you want make someone wear that in a hot country doing manual work. Most maids just wear what's comfortable to them.

And it was the expat and maid bashing that got folk riled up, not the more serious issues that plague Dubai which most folk I imagine who live there are aware of.

From Portos link

Having lived and worked in Dubai, everyone out there knows that Dubai is built on the modern day equivalent of slave labour. It is not a secret, is not hidden, and anyone who tells you different is lying. Whether you choose to ignore it or not is up to you, but do not pretend not to be complicit, when their poor wages subsidise your lavish lifestyle, gas guzzling car, swimming pool, school fees etc etc Hopefully now with the recession even the Brits are realising it is no longer the safe haven cash-cow that they think they are entitled to, by luck of birth

Thats it for me really, its the denial that even by living there you are part of it, even if you're really nice to your maid and try to improve her conditions. I suppose also just by being there and taking advantage of the perks you are contributing.

I think id have more respect if people just said 'yes its bad, but im making the most of it for a bit then im getting out'

'Hopefully now with the recession even the Brits are realising it is no longer the safe haven cash-cow that they think they are entitled to, by luck of birth'

Oh yes, We all think we are entitled to a safe haven cash cow just because we are British.

Who is making gross generalisations now?

Would you really have more respect for people if they said that Amberleaf? Really? Only forgive me - but before, I thought it was the cynical way that we are prepared to shelve our morals and turn a blind eye to gross injustice while we all make a fast buck that you so detested about us.

Which is it? Please tell. I'd love to know exactly what I need to do to have your respect.