Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think if you SAH and your DP works and earns X, you do not therefore earn X yourself

789 replies

catgirl1976 · 04/02/2012 09:53

I do not want to start a SAH / WAH bunfight and this is inspired by another thread but......

A thread recently was asking people if they earnt over £40k and I was surprised to see a number of posters saying they were SAHM / SAHD but their partner earnt XX, so therefore they did too.

Now, I am not commenting on the value of the work a stay at home partner does - the value is huge and it is a tough, worthwhile thing to do.

But you do not earn. (Even if you should etc etc).

I work. My DH stays at home. If I heard DH saying "oh catgirl earns xxx so I earn xxx too" I would be really peed off and think - "no, no dude - you don't."

We don't have separate money - what's mine is his and vice versa, and I am happy with our arrangement. It is hos money as much as mine, but I earn it. He didn't spend 20 hours negotiating a deal or whatever - that was me.

It has never even occured to me before, but I was just surprised that people felt if DP earned an amount, they earned it too and would actually say, well yes I earn over £40k as DH is a GP or whatever.

It almost felt like some people were saying they were somehow personally doing better than others because they had "married better" which seemed really Hmm

AIBU?

OP posts:
Nagoo · 04/02/2012 17:05

see how civilised MN is today? :)

SecretMinceRinser · 04/02/2012 17:06

callmemrs it might be judgemental for me to think that as my kids mother I can look after them better than someone who has other kids to care for at the same time. I can only base it on the cm's I have come across but I would not want to pay more than I earn for any of them to care for my kids. Why would I need to justify my decision? I'm happy, dh is happy and so are the kids.

Molehillmountain · 04/02/2012 17:07

Ooh catgirl don't get me started on people who pull rank on money or status, theirs or their partners!

Original poster
catgirl1976 · 04/02/2012 17:08

: ) It's them I had the issue with molehill

It's just so yuck!

OP posts:
RedHotPokers · 04/02/2012 17:11

'I would never encourage my DSs to go into a line of work which does not allow for days off with sick DCs, paternity leave or makes them work a ridicilous amount of hours meaning they never get a chance to see their DCs and where the only option is to find a DW enabling them to be able to work these silly hours.'

Well said. Wherever possible there needs to be a balance.

Molehillmountain · 04/02/2012 17:13

Too right! And sometimes the credit that is taken for things that are born of genetic or life opportunities Angry. As I see it-it wasn't just Newton or whoever said it first who was "standing on the shoulders of giants". Achievements enjoyed, made the most of all fantastic, financially profited from too. But as a comparative measure against the rest of humanity? Not for me.

Tattyhead78 · 04/02/2012 17:20

YANBU and it makes no difference anyway because it's about household income, but I think that there are cases where people give such great support to their DPs that they are to some extent entitled to say that. For instance, some people are more pushy about asking for payrises, so they might be inclined to encouarge their DP to be like that too. I know of plenty of couples where there are SAHMs who before they became SAHMs were supporting their DHs financially through education to get better-paid jobs.

sunshineandbooks · 04/02/2012 17:37

I think this could turn into a very important discussion.

I see where catgirl's coming from but I'd like to progress it. Even though SAHPs have value, she's right in that it's not monetary value. However, it plays an economic role. If you replaced SAHPing with a nanny, for example, a typical live-out nanny would cost the family an extra £350 take-home pay per week (£250 net per week for live-in). So, in effect, SAHPing DOES have a quantifiable economic value. I think we need to start naming it, and using it in discussions about tax, divorce settlements, pension rights, etc. It would do much to improve the status of SAH parenting.

To get slightly side-tracked, having a SAHP or part-time parent definitely DOES make a difference to the primary earner's career potential. I can't continue in my original career because I'm a single parent. Nor could I consider other careers for the same reason. If I'd had a SAH partner, I would have had lots of other options open to me. I cannot replicate the effect with a CM or nursery because they are not flexible enough in the main and will not take sick children. A nanny would, but we've just established the cost of that, which is out of the reach of most people on average salaries.

A partner with their own job could help only as long as - and this is the crucial bit - that partner's career came very much second to my own, so that they would be the one taking a day off work at short notice, etc. This is, of course, why women still suffer from a gender pay gap, because they are in the main the secondary earners or the SAHPs. I think that should be recognised more. Caring responsibilities (older relatives as well as DC) account for the biggest proportion of the gender pay gap.

LineRunner · 04/02/2012 17:46

sunshineandbooks, That's very well put.

I'm in the same boat.

Bonsoir · 04/02/2012 17:50

"Caring responsibilities (older relatives as well as DC) account for the biggest proportion of the gender pay gap." I agree with this. And, of course, it is very difficult to put a monetary value on the quality and quantity of care a loving relative (mother/daughter etc) gives because it is almost always an awful lot more than the quality and quantity of care an employee gives.

RedHotPokers · 04/02/2012 17:57

sunshineandbooks - I think the sad thing is, often even when the woman earns more than the man, there is the presumption that she will be the one taking the majority of days off when the children are sick etc. Often I think this can discourage employers from employing women with young children.

I think the employers and colleagues of men are still a bit Shock that men may have to take days off for childcare (maybe because the male senior managers have SAH Wives). And I guess that is another key issue. SAHMs (and it is the mother 99% of the time) enable their husbands not to have their work interrupted by chidcare issues, and this almost makes it harder for the husbands of WOHMs to get the flexibility and equality they may need (compared with their female colleagues). IYSWIM!

Original poster
catgirl1976 · 04/02/2012 18:10

That's interesting.

I wonder if I take the view that DH staying at home doesn't affect my earnings as I have had children late and my career is already established whereas if we had had them much younger perhaps I would have a different experience and view.

I do think the assumption that men will have a SAHP makes it harder on the men in that they don't feel they can take time off for children and for working mothers as employers expect they will take tome off and can therefore yreat them less favourably.

OP posts:
motherinferior · 04/02/2012 18:27

Hmm. My DP has become a lot tougher in taking time off for sick children etc (he wasn't that slack before, I'll admit) since I started WOTH.

rhondajean · 04/02/2012 18:39

Wow this three is long.

I came on to say, I think that they say that because they actually are materialistic people who don't value what they do themselves because there is no monetary recompense attached to it.

I would earn what I earn regardless of who worked when.

DH does not earn what I do, nor did he when he stayed t home for a bit. Likewise, when I stayed at home I did not earn what he did, and now, his earnings are his earnings.

We used the money to pay for shared outgoings but one person earned it. It's very odd to claim vicarious responsibility for earning or for career status to me. In fact, it smacks of WAGdom does it not?

Laquitar · 04/02/2012 19:03

The bit that irritates me irationally is the birthday cards.

'My dh does well because i write ALL the birthday cards to his mum'

OR

'He got promotion because i sort the house insurance once a year'

Please, can we stop this non sense?

Childcare, yes, very valid point. Much easier to focus on your career when your partner is at home doing the childcare.

Gay40 · 04/02/2012 19:09

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand back to the 1950s in one fell swoop.

Original poster
catgirl1976 · 04/02/2012 19:11

Ah well.......the dresses are nice

OP posts:
fedupofnamechanging · 04/02/2012 19:17

Just caught up with this again. I didn't mean to imply earlier that in households where both partners are working, there isn't work to do when you get home. What I was clumsily trying to say is that, if I woh (used to be a teacher, so had regular hours and didn't need to travel etc), I would be the one coming home and having to do the majority of the child care and housework. The nature of dh's job means that he is not always around to do 50% of it.

Now, if I insisted that he pull his weight wrt home work, he would not be able to do his job or the jobs prior to this one where he gained promotion and higher wages. He certainly would not have been able to move abroad for work, which we did when the dc were smaller. Or he could have done, but not if I was committed to a job here and relied on him for his share of child care.

Truthfully, although it's possible for both of us to work, I'd still be left with everything else to do, simply because of the nature of my hours compared to his. I think that's not a fair division of labour and I prefer it the way we have things now.

Ithaka, in truth, I haven't fully decided what to do when my dc eventually leave home. I have found, as they get older, that they need me as much as they did when they were younger, just in a different way (GCSE years at the moment). I think I will look to go back to work, or if dh can retire reasonably early (ha ha ha), I would like to travel and spend more time just the two of us.

DS2 informs me that he would like me to look after his (hopefully long way off) kids, so he can go out! Not bloody likely Grin

motherinferior · 04/02/2012 19:20

'Now, if I insisted that he pull his weight wrt home work, he would not be able to do his job or the jobs prior to this one where he gained promotion and higher wages.'

Really? Not even with buying in a bit of assistance with childcare and/or housework? And would it actually matter anyway? Does him having a fulfilling work/life balance (in that he's got a nice job and he has a nice home life) mean this particular job?

fedupofnamechanging · 04/02/2012 19:32

There are a couple of things there, motherinferior. Firstly, neither of us really wanted to buy in assistance with child care. Back when ds1 was small, my mum and dad helped us a lot, but now I have 4 dc and it would be a lot for them to do, and they are not really up to it. I think if I was working ft, I wouldn't have been able to have 4 dc.

DH has found a job where he can often work from home, but it does involve travel the rest of the time. That particular job enables us to live where we choose, rather than within commuting distance of the office. Yes, we could both do lower paid jobs, but then we'd both be working full time in order to bring home what dh does now, and we'd have had a smaller family and would be reliant on other people to help care for our dc.

It's swings and roundabouts. What we have done is good in many ways, but not so good in others. Very few people get everything they want.

motherinferior · 04/02/2012 19:35

Oh well, if you don't want to pay for childcare, I suppose yes you do have to stop other paid work, at least for a while.

TupperwareTwat · 04/02/2012 19:44

YANBU.

One of my cousins (SAHM) posted this as her facebook status:

'So you ask... do I work? Uh yes, I work 24 hours a day. Why? Because I am a mom. I am an alarm clock, a cook, a maid, a teacher, a nanny, a nurse, a handyman, a security officer, a judge/jury, a photographer, a counselor, a chauffeur, an ATM, a jungle gym & a comforter. I don't get holidays, sick pay or days off. I work through the DAY & NIGHT. I am on call at ALL hours. Re-post if you are proud to be a mom!!!'

What a load of bollox!

Original poster
catgirl1976 · 04/02/2012 19:45

I haaaaaaaaaaaaate cut and paste status updates. All of them.

They make me unreasonably angry

OP posts:
Alibabaandthe40nappies · 04/02/2012 19:45

Tupperware in what way is that bollocks?

I loathe facebook, so that aspect of it is not to my taste, but I don't see anything untrue in what she has posted.

motherinferior · 04/02/2012 19:50

I'm a mother. I get a very nice night's sleep. And I am a mum 24/7, as my partner is a father 24/7.