To want to wear make up and high heels

[WheresTheCat]

Harumph. Have just skimmed through Julie Birchill's article in the weekend papers (I know - I'm running behind!) Apparently women only wear heels and make up as we are slaves to men.

I am so fed up with all the judgements about what women wear. Surely we should wear what we want as long as we're happy. For me it's high heels and make up, for my BF it's trainers and jeans. It doesn't matter.

And, Julie Birchill, it doesn't make me a bad person/anti-feminist/unintelligent if I choose to dress the way I do.

Everything being equal I would rather the message that adult women were giving to their daughters was that it's okay to just look the way you do. You don't need improving, you are fine as you are.

Whatever your personal reasons for wearing or not wearing make up , the current message being broadcast is that looks are everything and you could always look better than you do.

If you are seem by children wearing full on slap then how do you propose that they come to understand that you dont believe that they should do the same?

I agree with entropy but i think there ate other aspects too . Men also have pressure to look a certain way and will put effort into achieving this. There is a lot of pressure in society to look sexually attractive and attract a mate. Then we have issues with people who are too overtly sexual and they become judged. So we should look attractive but not overly sexual

We also have some fairly warped ideas about what is attractive, and how best to display ourselves.

I wear make up every day. Without fail. I don't wear it for anyone else but myself. I enjoy trying new products, and have found a general look that suits me and enhances what I already have.

I don't wear high heels as I don't find them comfortable, but I often wear low heels during the day. Again, for me, not for anyone else!

Everything being equal I would rather the message that adult women were giving to their daughters was that it's okay to just look the way you do. You don't need improving, you are fine as you are

I would rather give them the message that they can choose to wear make-up if they want to or choose not to if they don't.

Just like their Mums

entropy if wearing makeup puts pressure on the people looking at us, what about well cut, flattering clothes that make boobs look less droopy, waists seem narrower, legs longer etc? Or should we all wear a uniform of a fleece two sizes too big, and baggy trousers?

If a woman is truly confident in her appearance, with or without makeup, and presents herself in a manner that pleases her, be it power suit, mini skirt or combats, another woman's choices will not pressure her in the slightest.

Its not just clothes that give a 'message' to our daugers (and sons). My mum was always made-up, matchinggloves, shoes and handbag, always dressed nicely and accessorised. She was also charming, kind, caring and someone that you would NOT want to get ont he wrong side of. She would do anything for her family and wasn't afraid to speak her mind (threatened to excommunicate herself if the vicar wouldn't marry us in the church).

She taught me so much about being 'me', and the visuals just didn't come into it. She also wore high heels, mainly because she was about a foot and a half shorter than dad.

I actually agree with the last two posts in principle but it doesnt seem to be working does it? We are all free to ignore our looks but teenage girls have major problems....

So how do we fix it? Less emphasis on looks I think.

Maybe if 50% of women wore make up and 50% didnt, then girls would get the idea it was a choice and a lot of people don't care much about how you look. But in the current climate 99% of women wear make up and a substantial number go further and have surgery. That doesnt seem to get across the message that looks arent important and not improving your looks is a valid option.

I destinctly remember an ad on tv when I was little and was mightily pissed off with it then.

I think it was for Special K and the woman's voice over (to her husband) went 'but I'll be old and fat, and you won't love me anymore...' (not if you eat Special K until it comes out of your ears, sunshine, the implication was).

I asked my grandmother if this was true and she told me that it was a load of old rubbish. I can't see that one being re-aired!

Fair enough OP.

But when I look at my 12 yr old DD, who is as beautiful as she could be already (IMHO of course) and she says 'Mum, can I wear make-up to school' and 'when can I start to shave my legs?', I do get a bit pissed off to think of the messages she must be receiving from the media, her mates and other women she sees, that she isn't good enough just as she is. And I am aware of the hypocrisy in all that - I do some of those things too because I was subject to the same pressures when I was growing up but it would be great to live in the sort of society where girls didn't feel the need to conform.

I think that the issue is that all women should be aware of the reasons they do what they do. It's all very well saying that 'I do X for myself because I like it' but it is noticeable how many of the things that women 'choose' to do are the things that enhance their breasts, and legs and lips, make their eyes look bigger etc. All things that make women attractive to men. Not many women choose to go with all-over tattoos, or extreme piercings, muscles or dungarees.

Thejoyful so you have no confidence without make up? why is that? Might it have something to do with the climate of looks being mega important by any chance? Is it because you feel people judge you on your looks? Why else would a layer of slightly orangey past on your face make you feel more confident?

How can people not make the connection between everyone doing something and feeling pressured to do something yourself? Did you guys never experience peer pressure at school? Do you not ever look in fashion mags? Where do teenage girls get the idea that looks matter so much from?

SRSLY.

Oh and joyful I found one person who has felt pressured into wearing make up....its you!

Ah the '99% of women wear makeup' bullshit made up statistic to back up an argument.

Is that at any given moment?!

I'm not wearing makeup today but was actually debating going to play with some. I have been known to experiment and have 2 different colours on my eyes when DH gets in.

This is how he looks at me -->

This is my face -->

Entropy- it may not be orangy paste if you are warm toned it will have a yellow undertone and if you are cool toned it will have a pink undertone.

My god... I love makeup

My peers (only girls though) tried to convince me that my bum was to big, but being brought up by non white women, didn't succeed. I still see this message subtly given out, i would say that it is capatilism that has partly done this, if the market doesn't exsist, you create it.

My love of colour comes from my culture, though and even the Egyptians wasn't bare faced.

Make up is one thing- ffs MEN wore it until v recently but high heels are a heath hazard

YANBU. I don't wear make-up or heels myself, but if you want to, then it's entirely your choice.

I'm amazed at how much energy some women put into denigrating other women for making slightly different choices. I don't feel any pressure to wear make-up etc, and certainly wouldn't start demanding that other women stop wearing it (or insult them for doing so) just to make me feel better about not bothering!

People who are comfortable with themselves don't tend to behave like that.

(I do think high heels must be quite bad for you actually, especially if you wear them all the time. But adult women are capable of making choices like that for themselves!)

kayano well my work place data sampling indicated 100% make up use. (not including myself obviously (that would be a conflict of interests)). Yup that's right the one other woman I have seen today was wearing make up (may work in a slightly male dominated environment).

I also had misgiving about the orange paste comment....I realise that make up may have moved on at some point in the last 10 years....I would do some research but the make up counter women scare the living daylights out of me. Seriously they are fucking terrifying (although they may be more scared of me than I am of them....I do look quite special).

You know I think I might have some make up still from my vulnerable teenage years (I got my ears pierced at 16 as well but it gave me endocarditis and I nearly died - seriously trying to look better has not worked out well for me).

Maybe I will give birds approach a try. I have orange hair and pinkish/pale skin, so what colours would you suggest? (again it is possible that my aversion to make up is based in their being no colours that go with both my hair and my face and the fact that they actually clash with each other).

You dont like your own skin puddle that's sad. How do you know that blotchy is bad? Is it because you don't see many people around baring their blotches?

why do you even give a flying fuck what she says! I am in heels and make up as we speak (at work)

I just enjoy make up to the point of wanting to talk about it all the time.

Some women like sport
Some women like reading
Some women like to play with makeup - I am one of those lol

I don't really give a toss if my enjoyable past time is perceived as me trying to pressurise other women into wearing makeup because frankly I don't do it for that reason. If they feel pressurised they have other issues going on IMO.

I often do without makeup but honestly dot care what others are wearing on their face except maybe the odd 'I have that colour'. Because I have every colour

Just putting a bit of random info into thread. And I am bored