to be fuming at the "protecting our children" programme on BBC2 tonight?

[runtybunty]

I do not understand how a young child can be filmed like this. They stated at the start of the programme that they could not identify the 3 year old boy for his own protection. So how can they show his house, his parents and every other view of "toby" other than face-on? You would have to be a complete dimwit not to recognise the child if you knew him in real life.

There has been research based on "feral" children which shows there is a period of time when children need to learn language by or they will never acquire it. These were children who were very severely neglected - locked in rooms alone virtually all of the time until 8 years old, brought up living in chicken houses with only chickens for company, etc.

What has been found is that after a certain age children who don't talk because of severe neglect can learn some words. But they never learn how to put sentences together, use grammar, etc. This is in spite of speech therapy, etc by experts in the field.

There are different theories as to why this is the case, but it has been a remarkably uniform finding throughout the world suggesting it is true.

Just to say these children learned many many other skills in spite of the severe neglect. Some learned hwo to live independently, others didn't. But the language one applies to all of the children.

And neglectful parenting- lack of stimulation/ affection- can actually affect brain development in the child.

crashdoll-dont they teach you not to presume that your service users can read?

tbh I doubt if Tiffany or mike were literate

and i dont think the no tooothbrush thing is uncommon, my kids have always been given free ones at nursery every 3 months- I thought everyone got this?

Attachment-theory says as much.

Cortisol.

I take back my comment about the adopt-ability of Tiffany's beautiful newborn realising that she was prem and needed an extra-specially clean and ordered environment beyond, "good enough", and at least one parent who could provide that.

I was never given free toothbrushes at nursery. But I can see if there is a low incidence of teeth brushing in your area as a whole, they might decide to routinely give them away free at nursery.

we used to have a yearly dental thing at nursery when my dds were younger where they would get toothbrush stickers and a book about looking after teeth but that was it , i think toothbrushing is a common thing and toothbrushes are needed as a parent of a dailiy hygene routine ,

I thought the whole program was very sad and frustrating for all concerned and was also left wondering what happened to the puppy?

The puppy was probably still with Tiffany and Mike (having come back when SS went away and the DC were taken) until they realised that they could not afford to feed it and themselves without the money which was supposed to be for the benefit of their son and his newborn sister.

They probably strangled or drowned it.

Asi said ealier there is pictoral work books and tools that are used with anone whois strugling with any cognitive/literacy problems, to teach parenting skills.

Micheal Rutter did a lot of new research into the effect of maternal deprivation based on the Romanian children left in cots, it is his and others findings that we use as evidence based practice.

Baby toothbrushes are given in the packs to new mums when they register at a Children's Centre. Parents in certain circumstances can get free safety/hygiene equipment.

I didn't want to mention the puppy, SS will have contacted the RSPCA. I went to a child conference recently (it wasn't my case it was transfering), the only instruction given to the parents was that they couldn't keep their kitten, we were all a bit ,the Family Support Worker was (that the child seemed completely overlooked). There is a high incidence of animal cruelity in families whose children areon CP plans, and we often wonder how they are getting the animals that they do.

I didn't see the puppy, where was that?

It was was all over the sticky floor with his mess and the stair-gate bought by SS was supposed to be fitted so that Toby could have a faeces-free few square feet to play

I don't know about dogs. Which breed was it?

Did anyone notice that even after the bed was bought for them it was still sitting against the wall not put up. Can't believe the social workers didn't push them on this. That was more important than the stairgate being put up surely?

the puppy was in 2 scenes maybe 3 at the start it was near newspaper then it shit on the floor , and when toby was hitting out at his mum before mike restrained him it was on the sofa growling at toby but he was hitting it , I dont understand why they get pets either cant cope with children but add pets to the chaos

a little xbreed non specific dog really ,

It was a black staffie/lab cross type of dog which was allowed to poo/wee everywhere as it was presumably not being exercised hence ss trying to get a clean area for Toby to play in. The child is obviously the most important thing but just worry about animals in this situation too. Agree with mrsjay.

mists- spreading rumours and unjustified gossip just makes you look nasty and clueless

so did they have a dog as well, or just the puppy?

we only saw a puppy

charolotte what do you mean thats is why they got the stairgate for them for a clean place for toby to play . I think they just had the puppy not sure really i only saw 1 dog

I think Charlotte was referring to Mists comment about how they probably strangled or drowned the dog mrsjay

Oh ok didnt see that ,

Charlotte it is interesting that I am being called nasty and clueless when I am speculating about an ANIMAL.

Of all the people on this thread who are concerned about the entire family, myself included, the only personal attack is targeted in reference to what might have happened to a dog.

Carry on

Witchface- you have to quantify risk, providing a clean place to sleep should be the responsibility of the parent, you only do it if the parent is incapable. I have left cots and then after three days put them up, because it isn't grounds for removal, but the child needs it, but will be used as the parents inability to provide adequate care.

Parents in these cases are not ticking any boxes. You would say fair enough,if the child was being taken out and read to etc, but usually nothing is done. There is a lot of undisclosed soft drug/drink use.

Hi, don't lets get distracted into name calling - we all care which is why we are posting! x