to be fuming at the "protecting our children" programme on BBC2 tonight?

[runtybunty]

I do not understand how a young child can be filmed like this. They stated at the start of the programme that they could not identify the 3 year old boy for his own protection. So how can they show his house, his parents and every other view of "toby" other than face-on? You would have to be a complete dimwit not to recognise the child if you knew him in real life.

I don't want anyone thrown into an institution but equally people need to function within their limitations and those two shouldn't have been allowed a dog never mind a child. Whilst SS and the tax payer continue to pick up the pieces the problems will not go away. For somebody like Tiffany I would happily bribe her not to have any more children for the sake of all concerned but especially hers, 10 pregnancies that girl has been through. 10

Runty but how many chances should they get?! Te child was being neglected, left in a shithole and his development was delayed.

It would be nice to get some families back together, but if it's to the detriment of the child they shouldn't!

You shouldn't get to just keep a child because you 'love' it. You need to act on that love and take action to make things better! Some families just have messed up priorities and ffs if you can't even sort a cot/ bed after it has been given to you for free to help you and your child then sorry but you shouldn't be a parent.

Look at that special needs mother on OBEM last week... Sw was amazing and had support! If people reject support and are confrontational then it's their own bloody stupid fault

she was amazing. (I loved Trish)

I wonder if anything is being done to help Tiffany adjust to her loss and become independent?

I realise that she can't be stopped from getting back with Mike or meeting another "Mike" as she could easily do just that and conceive another child. She is still a young woman and fully entitled to a private life. But the cycle could well continue.

Hope she is happy on her own or with someone supportive and lovely.

There are always going to be tiffanys though, and mikes. I just thank god there are systems in place to catch some of these babies. I feel there would be a lot more Peter connellys a lot more jasmine beckfords, a lot more khyra ishaqs without the children's services in this country. The system is not perfect, but the rights of the children should always always come before the needs of the parents.

Agree with heswall about functioning within limitations. Sometimes, there can be all the help and people will just not take it, or cannot for reasons only known to them. Yes, it's sad, but how long do social workers wait, before they see another door close on a childhood?

When a child goes into the Looked After System, there is a plan drawn up, usually similar to the CP plan which includes all of the services mentioned, it becomes baffling as to why the parents don't take up these services.

When i was struggling after being widowed i would have bitten an SW's hand off to get what i offer parents.

Parents won't let us (or anyone else) go through money management they think that it is an invasion of privacy. Usually something is being covered up. They go to the top of housing lists, we furnish the houses for them,but they don't even turn up for the assessments or solisitors appointments. As i keep saying you have to witness it to believe it.

The amount of parents not turning up for contact over Christmas has been the worse yet. It is heartbeaking to watch emotionally abused, neglected childen. I will confess that we were not upset by a criis (of the parents making)s that happened in one family and the removal of the babies (all very young, born nine months apart), the thought of them all being at home together (not in the nursery places that we were funding) in the cold, uncared for, would have kept us awake at night. The mother has now said that she only wants two back.

I know people with more mental capacity than Tiffany who fall from one abusive relationship to another, she honestly doesn't stand a chance.
She wants something to love that isn't too much trouble hence the dog, so put her in a flat, buy her a dog and pay her another £50 a week on the condition that she doesn't get pregnant. Or for her own health pay her £10,000 to get steralised. Both would be far better outcomes.

Birds what it the best way to get into social work? I've been interested for quite a while

Tiffany may get pregnant again and willbe given the opportunity of keeping the baby. I have worked with women who have been vulnerable and had multiple children removed (or killed/disabled by partners) but have gone on to parent well.

Heck of a risk though eh Birds ?

Agree kayano about trisha from obem. A great example of a woman aware of her own needs but dedicated to ensuring the child did not suffer because of them. Yes, it was basic written instructions about feeding, bathing, changing. But the child was well, fed and clean. The outcome was positive. It was her openness to support and guidance which made this possible. Out of love for her daughter.

Via the access and BA route. You need around 500 hours of work, paid or voluntary in social care. The role of family support worker is also part of CP and you can get those jobs by working in Children and Family Services, nurseries etc and taking additional qualifications.

toby wont be in the area now I dont think he will be placed in bristol , I thought it was brave for the parents to show faces they have to live life knowing people have seen them on TV , It was heartbreaking dad was intimidating and had no priorities towards his son it was all about his rights , sadly families like toby's isnt rare ,

Heswall- there is a thorough assessment and daily visits done. People make mistakes, have the wrong partner, take time to grow up,by having high quality services in place and people taking them up, there can be a good outcome.

Because of the cuts the NSPCC has now had to cancel alot of perpetrator work, hopefully Banardos can pick upthe gaps. Drug services and MentalHealth services are being cut back,usually though a parent on a CP plan will get priority.

wretched there is an awful lot of it going on here on MN... Women being told they are in an abusive relationship, them saying, but he's a good dad/ I can't leave, no money, nowhere to go/don't want to break up the family. It does happen. She was never that 'vocal' with telling him to keep quiet, she mumbled it. He hit her. They split. From what I saw,IMO, he was the biggest problem.

ParanoidAndroid - I was thinking exactly the same! amazing how some Mners re able to offer a complete and full diagnosis of the child's, mother's and father's issues based on a single hour of telly! arrogance (and stupidity) indeed.

The parents failed to meet any of Toby's needs. If they couldnt even stop to think about something as simple as lunch, teeth brushing, putting a child to bed (in a BED) What else will they fail? Never any eye contact, the dad was an aggressive man and the little boy had nothing positive in his life.

Childrens behaviour speaks volumes. at one visit with his dad the boy put his own bag on and stood in front of his dad waiting for a goodbye. He then skipped of happily. The first time his body language looked happy. Thats was about 50min into the 1 hour programme.

donnie
the mother and fathers issues were for all to see this child was neglected and uncared for they couldnt or wouldnt care for him properly It was for all t see dad hadnt a clue how to cope with his son they had care plans in palce they ignored them they let a dog shit on the floor toby was allowed to wander about he didnt even have a bed fgs , this maybe an hour programme but this wasn't sensationlised children live with parents like this every day ,

While yes, I am under no illusions that some parents refuse all offers of help etc, it didn't seem like that in this case, and I think that given the right support, MAYBE there could have been a better outcome.

And saying that there was only a '6 month window' for the child's SN to improve is frankly insulting to those of us who have a dc with SN that are making daily improvements right up to the time they are adults. My 13yo DD, despite EVERY bit of help that she was given at primary, was unable to read or do simple mathematics beyond a reception level ('p' scales) at the end of Y6. Yet less than 3 years later, in Y9, she is working on NC lvl 5 in most subjects, and got a 'C' in her mock RE GCSE paper. Some children with SN bloom when they are older, despite all support put in place when they are young.

Though, I WILL admit - if they DID turn down speech therapy for their child, then something IS very wrong. My DD was on the waiting list from the age of 18 months and she didn't get her first appointment until she was almost 3yo. I would have bitten the arms off anyone who offered to get her an appointment sooner!

My DS1 is fine, working on 11+ prep right now, no problems other than being coeliac.

My DS2 ALSO has the same problems as my DD (well, some of them).

My DS3? Developing perfectly normally.

NOT environmental SN.

I'm NOT trying to make excuses, or say that the household wasn't neglectful - but my own situation illustrates that even those that have NO parenting skills due to their upbringing can be taught how to parent effectively.

So less children from the likes of Tiffany and Mike = more resources for Hnuycats children and other parents who are going to turn up. No brainer really isn't it.

Hunty* my own dd has SN she is dyspraxic so i understand how hard it is sometimes to get support even when you go down every avenue , I think they meant the 6th month window was due to his age the paed seemed to think some of his delay was enviromental and this needed to be sorted , Its a bit like children who are left in cots all day in an orphanage they dont progress very well if there is no stimulation , I know thats an extreme example , but toby was sort of left to run ferral ,

And bus passes offered to those whose dc are in FC? That actually makes me snort, birdgottafly. My DD wasn't placed in the same town as where I lived, was placed in a town 12 miles away. As I couldn't afford the transport, I had to WALK 12 miles EACH WAY to see her for just 1-2 hrs, twice a week (all I was allowed). SS refused to give me ANY help with the transport, telling me that if I wanted to see my DD, I would just have to walk. And if I didn't, then it would show them that I didn't want to see her. And that if I did that, then I would lose in court. And if I turned up even 3 minutes late, it was logged, and counted against me!

So I'll respectfully agree to disagree that EVERY SW ensures that the parent can get to contact with a dc in FC. Just as in every profession, there are some cunts in SW too. Not all, maybe not the majority, but SOME. And if you come across one,and that is YOUR allocated SW, you are frankly, screwed.

I would be MUCH happier with this situation if the family courts weren't closed. THAT IMO gives the SW's too much power, and SOME SW's take advantage of that rather than helping the parents.

And I get that it for protection of the dc, and that IS understandable - but only up to a point. You can't put in a FoI request for court papers from Family courts, so you CAN'T prove ANY case where procedure hasn't been followed. Things DO get covered up, hidden, due to the secrecy of the family courts. There needs to be some other, more transparent way of carrying out these proceedings IMO.

This isn't about special needs. It's about basic needs. Food, shelter and hygiene. All of which were seen to be lacking. It's very very simple. A chld has a human right to their basic needs being met. Which these parents failed to do, even with services in place to help them. Things were bought for them to provide the right care for their son ffs! And they still couldn't toilet him, dress him appropriately and ensure he was fed for an afternoon at nursery. And their pet came first. His very basic needs were going ignored and as such other issues began to impact on his development. The sw were absolutely right to intervene,particularly with the impending sibling on the way.

Wretched. Yes, exactly.