Did schools used to be like this?

[spiderslegs]

DS started school FT in January & ever since it's been a constant stream of missives, announcements, edicts & raised brow questioning from his teacher.

The first week he was there I had a constant battle with his teacher because I was sending him to school with a padded body warmer on, not a coat, every day she asked me if he 'has a coat, because we play out every day, even when it's drizzling' & yes, you do, but not WHEN IT'S PISSING DOWN. In which case his arms will get slightly damp, as will his legs & face, how would you like me to mitigate against that, full dry suit & mask?

It was warmish & sunny, biblical floods were not on the horizon .

Consequently, EVERY CHUFFING DAY it's been something, last week was battle of the drinks, they have a school issued water bottle (irritating in itself) which I sometimes put in, he has milk at break & a drink for lunch, I was taken aside twice for not giving him a drink - I had he just didn't arsing drink it, maybe they should have asked him to look in his bag again?

Would you like me to pop in a few times a day to ensure he has fulfilled his government recommended level of fluid intake - WOULD YOU?

On Friday the lovely mum that drops him off sheepishly told me teacher asked her to mention she did NOT LIKE HIS SHOES, they are difficult to do up apparently - I'm sorry, I'll get him some M&S footgloves shall I?

Today's final straw was the letter from the eco-co-ordinator that asked me to reduce waste in his lunch box & that they would be speaking to the children about waste in their lunches THEN COLLECTING & COMPARING THAT WASTE - so you'd like to make my son feel like a miscreant & social pariah because he has a Baby-bel rather than a dried up hunk of cheddar planed from a block would you???

So AIBU to want to run through the school screaming - 'I AM A FREE BORN HUMAN BEING - MY CHILDREN ARE FREE BORN HUMAN BEINGS - I WOULD LIKE YOU TO TEACH THEM MATHS, & READING & SPELLING BUT LEAVE THE REST OF IT TO ME PLEASE'

Am I ?

It has been the mildest winter ever though hasn't it. Where we are a body warmer would have been fine at the start of the month.

Ha. Come and do playground duty at my school - you would have been very glad of a warm coat any day this January.

YANBU OP, I find the mindless pettifogging (great word!) rules at primary both incomprehensible and tedious.

I am also deeply irritated by their endless insistance on trying to 'involve me in the life of the school' - I am at work during the day, in common with most women in the 21st century. Back in the day my parents were never expected to come into my primary school, which was handy as they both worked. Why do I gave to be dragged in for tedious assemblies? You have to go, or you feel crap your child doesn't have a parent there, but it is a total waste of time.

OP - secondary school is so much better. There is no expectation that parents are lounging about during the day with nothing better to do with their time than go into the school. They get on the school bus and get back off again and you visit the school once a year for parents evening. Perfect.

Like others I'm amazed that chickydoo actually thinks it's a matter of pride to have raised a child with no notion of respect and manners.

As for the OP I suspect that when she takes her little precious out to privately educate the staff will consider it good riddance.

And all of this is why I am dreading my DD starting school in September...

I am looking forward to her taking her out to privately educate because if she doesn't like the rules in a state school she hasn't seen anything yet!

ithaka seems to be missing the point that school is a partnership between the school and the parent. Parents got the involvement because they wanted it! When I went to primary school it was quite different. There was a line in the playground that parents didn't go over-they didn't take you to school anyway, we just walked each way on our own. It was a separate life. We had school dinners or went home, no one had packed lunches, we didn't take reading books home-you were taught to read at school so there were no reading diaries, there was no uniform, we were expected to tie laces at a young age (some DCs were inadequately dressed) we had the free milk and water at lunchtime. This was because school was a separate world and had rules that didn't impinge on parents at all. They sent us and that was all that was required. Do you really want to go back to that?
I much prefer that I can send my DCs with a packed lunch, that someone bothers that they wear a coat, velcro has been invented and that there is constant dialogue between home and school and that I can pop in and have a quick chat if I want to and that they have access to water and books come home and I can support.
Why not send to boarding school ithaka and then you don't have to do anything as tedious as watch your DC in assembly?

So you really want to just hand your DC over in September BelleDame and let the school do it all-as in my last post? I am amazed.

Well, I do think there is a middle line between boarding school and being irritated by the school's assumption that a parent is always on hand during the day for the most trivial of activities!

Anyway, we couldn't afford private or boarding school, so we are forced to moan about the modern state system, which I think has gone totally over the top.

I was perfecty happy with my primary school experience, which was as you describe in your second paragraph and yes, actually I would like us to go back to that. So would many other parents.

Exotic I remember my mum taking me to infant school (60s). I took a reading book home and read part of the book to the teacher on a Friday. I also remember the teachers helping the youngest children (4/5yo) with shoes, coats etc. So maybe different at different schools.

I agree that we had free milk (at breaktime for us).
I can't remember water being offered (unless you felt unwell).
And yes it was school dinner or go home for lunch (no packed lunch).

I would also agree that "school was a separate world and had rules that didn't impinge on parents" although I would disagree with the "at all". If there were problems a parent was likely to be called in.

It was parents who got more involvement, parents who got homework and parents who got uniform! I accept that not all parents want all of it but the majority do.
Looking back a lot was better-the helicopter parent had little scope!!
There were no PTAs either.
However-I prefer the partnership. It does mean that you get the rules-if the school does it all they don't need to involve the parents. I wonder how many would like to be told that their DC has a school dinner or they have to go home for lunch?

I expect that you were called in Juule but I didn't have problems so my mother never went in. I remember a Christmas play-that was the only time parents were given the opportunity to attend. I'm not sure about the reading book to be honest-I read very early so I remember taking a library book home on a Friday-it is possible reading scheme books went home-but probably not-in case they were lost!

sorry-they not you

The school dinner had one choice-vegetarians had to go home for lunch. Life wasn't rosy-I really think people wouldn't want to go back to it just to let them off the hook.

Let who off the hook?

Spiderlegs! She can send in whatever clothes she wants -not have to worry about drinks etc. All she needs to do is take her DC at the right time. However-she wouldn't like it! She wants the school to do it her way, with no rules and not the school do it their way with no rules!
The only way she can have it her way is HE which is a huge commitment.

Exotic - that is not what I meant at all! What I meant was the confusion and lack of clarity between schools/home that I see on these boards. I've visited all the schools on our "choice" form and some others. Plus one independent. Only one of the state schools seemed remotely organised and had a very impressive head teacher (probably the school we'll "get"). The others were pretty disorganised tbh. In all probability, she will go to the independent simply because I feel she will be better looked after and we will all know what's expected.

FWIW, I started school over 40 years ago. There may not have been reading diaries but we were expected to read, etc, at home. We also could have packed lunch, school dinners or went home. I also clearly remember teachers taking care of us re coats and shoes.

Of course, we can only speak from our personal experiences but, actually, my school was pretty good.

I am older than you Belle.

I know that you didn't mean it!
However, it is a partnership and parents will be expected to do certain things to support. All the fuss about packed lunches is because the school will be going for the Healthy School Awards (bronze, silver and gold). There is generally a reason for everything-some schools are just better at implementing it than others. It helps if parents have common sense and don't send a DC in shoes they can't do themselves-and then the school doesn't have to point it out.

Does anyone else notice the irony that back in the day, when most mums with young children didn't work (my mum was unusual in having a career when we were young - I was very proud of her), schools didn't expect them to be available at the drop of a hat during the day - mum was too busy to be dragged into school for class assemblies.

Now both parents usually work, it is suddenly a 'partnership' and it appears from this thread some teachers enjoy sighing and tutting at those parents who do not enjoy this relationship with the shool that has been foisted on them (telling me to send my children to boarding school! Shall I just rob a bank while I am at at it?)

You are right there ithaka! You can't please all of the people all of the time.

I feel your pain OP - Reception drove me mad! Our school were particularly poor at communicating before the event but very fond of communicating after the event - they loved the "unwritten rule" that we all should have known about and which we constantly stumbled into....I must have failed to attend the secret meeting or did I not get an invite to the secret Mummy Club - all the Mums with older kids knew the rules - they'd learnt the hard way. Why rules cannot be made clear from the beginning I have no idea - I suspect that the daft rules would seem even more ridiculous in black & white. Even our HT seemed to think unwritten rules were absolutely fine, maybe that was because the HT wasn't great at spelling.

As an adult you don't appreciate all these little comments, they make you feel like you are back at school, they feel like a constant dig at your parenting skills. I could make little comments to the teacher everyday about the things she has screwed up on - now I'm thinking she wouldn't take to that very kindly either.

"Get a life"....unbelievably rude and any of the 8/9 year olds I work with at school would get an earful if they ever said such a thing to me. I would be mortified if my child ever said that to an adult, not calling him a "little darling." Ugh.

OP yabu for most of it, but maybe this particular school just isn't a good fit. People have different priorities and maybe a different school or homeschooling him yourself would be a better option for you.

Oh OP - I hear ya!

I remember being told off cos I hadn't cut up my lad's carrot into sticks for him when he started reception. He was 4 and loved bugs bunny, being autistic his lunchtime carrot chomp was the only joy in his day at that point! A term of that level of idiocy & of constantly being called in to discuss nonsense, and I did decide to homeschool for a time as his reading was deteriorating rapidly.

Concentrate on the 3R's and education & I''ll concentrate on parenting thanks. Kinda you do your job and I'll do mine ya know!

Constant undermining of parents is not helpful to the child in the long run either as it confuses them and ultimately can lead to behavioral issues in the classroom from the bewildered child.

My son has had a rough deal education wise cos of undiagnosed special needs but I will make this point - out of the 3 schools he's attended the ONLY one where he's actually learnt anything has been the one where I "parent" and they "teach". Clear boundries between the 2 roles means we can work together and my son is coming on in leaps and bounds!

(My involvement extends to a bit more than most cos of his SEN's re homework and therapies but that clear delineator of responsibilities works so much better all round as a general principle Everyone knows where they stand including most importantly the child.)

Back in the day parents weren't expected to drop everything at work and come rushing into school over the most trivial issues either. Teachers were expected to be able to control a class of 4 & 5 year olds all by themselves and frankly would have been ashamed to have phoned Mum for some of the nonsense I've had to go in for over the years.

Back in the day, Parents were only called in for expulsion level behavioral issues or for medical emergencies. Other than that as a Mum, you handed them over at 9 am with a warning to behave for their teacher & collected them at 3.30. In the evening you listened to them read/did homework and ensure their bag was properly packed for the following day - simples : )

Fecking water bottles, I hate them. Mine NEVER drink from them EVER. I have stopped putting them in their bags, one less thing to think about, they drink in the morning, drink at lunch and drink when they get home, they don't need to be sipping water all day long, I never did, when did that change. I don't even remember the cult of the water bottle when my 10yo started school.

exoticfruits
I was referring to petty rules as described the OP -the constant nonsense that the head came up with.
Of course there are rules once DC have left primary school.
My Dc are at secondary school .There are rules regarding uniform,behaviour and my DC stick to them . They are polite btw
We are not bombarded by constant nitpicking as described above.

What, petty rules like sending your child to school in something they can actually put on their own feet?

There are some very sensible people around here (I'm looking at you bochead, ithaka & bettybathroom).

Yes, I know I was very ranty, I was feeling very ranty, it just felt like a drip, drip, drip of information & its delivery was undermining me as a parent & it caused a terrible wine-induced melt-down. Really, the whole thing has come as a horrible shock to my constitution, I would have absolutely no problem at all with coats & shoes if somebody had written my a nice e-mail or letter & posted it to me before the start of term, out-lining such issues.

I would have thought it very sensible & complied like a good little worker-ant.

However I wasn't & bochead is absolutely right when talking about the constant undermining of parents & petty interferences, it's not helpful to any of the relationships involved.

& yy to the constant invites to all & every chuffing activity that's going on, I was invited to a 'maths evening' (maths has changed since you were at school, come & see the way we do things now!), errm, no maths hasn't changed, maths is still exactly the same as far as I'm aware - you may have decided to start teaching it in some ridiculously convoluted manner rather than drumming their tables in by rote, but maths has remained curiously static.

Grrr.