The relationship section of MN makes my blood boil.

[aaaaaaaaargh]

I will never set virtual foot in there again. I have imprints on my forehead of the keyboard from where I have been banging my head against it. It makes no SENSE!!! I have a jaw like Jacob Marley. There are so many threads like this:

OP: The other day I was a miserable cow, kids were stressing me. He came home to a complete shithole and then proceeded to clean up. I could sense he was a bit miffed at the state of the house so I told him to cook his own fucking dinner. He wanted to tell me about a problem with work, but I was pissed off and told him I wasn't interested, tell someone who gives a shit. He then shouted that I didn't give a toss about him and stomped upstairs. I can't live like this anymore.

Reply: He cleaned up?? How controlling is he? He then tried to make you listen to his work problems? What about YOUR problems?

Reply: He's emotionally abusive, but you know this don't you.

Reply: Definitely controlling, he doesn't care about what you want. He wanted to make you clean up and listen to his problems. Why the fuck are you cooking his dinner?

Reply: He shouted at you? This is abusive behaviour. You don't have to put up with this, you need to really think about how to proceed. Has he shouted before? This isn't normal.

Reply: Well actually, you weren't too pleasant to him. Perhaps you should look at YOUR behaviour.

Reply (to above poster): Great support there, this woman lives with an emotional abuser. Don't speak if you haven't got anything constructive to say. Don't listen to that poster OP.

Etc, etc....

I know that a lot of people in seriously abusive or violent situations have been helped in this section, and that that is an extremely good thing, before you point that out to me.

But some of the replies on other threads!!! Madness.

No one is denying that dv is a real issue, however you cannot deny that there are some people who demonise men. Just because they don't kill or rape them doesn't make it ok.

There are many situations where it is appropriate to say to a poster that she should look at her relationship carefully and whether it's wise to continue but some people are quick to jump to conclusions and before knowing all the details will say leave the bastard. This is acknowledged on other more jokey threads when posters say It with a smiley face.

I am sick of the sweeping generalisations made, whether it be about men, mil, people who keep or change their name once married or whatever argument it happens to be.

Some men hate women, agreed, but not all men so they shouldn't all be clumped together.

Aaaaargh I think you are being goaded and I wouldn't get drawn in further if I were you. You've made some good points and a lot of posters agree with you.

#this thread is going to morph into a feminist-bashing one now

Nah...that comment was tongue(ish) in cheek. Although I have met one, and she was so utterly horrible and nuts I hope to never meet one again.

Although, having said that, it would probably be unfair to tar all radical feminists as the same.

Hmmm....

See what I did there?

very clever, OP < taps nose >

aaaargh your use of "bitter" is part of the armoury of language used to describe women which attempts to sideline them and their arguments, as both basil and I have said already.

Hiding behind "coming across" and saying it's not a fact is just weaselly language use.

No you're not sorry if I feel insulted, you said it in order to make me feel insulted.

It doesn't work, because people always use "bitter" "shrill" "strident" etc. as a kneejerk insult when anyone ever puts forward any feminist arguments. So there's no point to it. Like patriotism, it's the last refuge of the scoundrel in feminist terms and it doesn't upset us.

Thanks TheFarSide - you're right.

I didn't realise bitter and shrill were only used in conjunction with feminism. I stand corrected.

Basil, you're hanging out with the wrong kind if people, I've never met anyone in rl like that !!

Or maybe I've just led a charmed and sheltered life

ifeelloved, I try not to hang out with them too much. I generally meet them at the school gates and they're generally exchanging stories about their DH's.

Lol. But surely you can see that they are not he norm. Just as dv is not the norm.

You make some very valid points but you can't say that all men are like that. I've said it before and I'll say it again, at what age do our sweet gorgeous ds's turn into these monsters?

"you can't say that all men are like that."

That's exactly my point. I don't. Nor does any radical feminist I've ever come across.

The only people who say all men are like that, are the ones who excuse abuse because they believe that all men are like that, and so for women to complain about it, is for women to be expressing a hatred of men.

I've already said all this.

Where has Basil said that all men are like that? She appears to be saying precisely the opposite.

I suppose you could trace my concerns back to the fact that I have young DS's.

I've met loads of radical feminists aaaaaaaaaargh. Not one of them hated men.

I suppose "not one" is technically correct :)

I have a young DS as well. Why would I be concerned? He is surrounded by amazing male role models - good, decent, kind men.

I have every faith in all of them.

Whatmeworry, do tell.

You seem to know which radical feminists I've met, and their opinions.

But that can't be right, can it, unless you're a stalker?

It's quite incredible how determined those who don't identify as feminists are to paint feminists as man-haters.

Probably because to acknowledge the complete fallacy in that, would have them totally floundering with regards to their own view point.

I am a feminist. I am surrounded by good men. I wish other women were as lucky as me.

Ok. So you've named someone now, and that's not on. Reporting.

I'm not her, but I've seen her and she's OK. Not on.

What are you worried about viz your young boys?

Do they not have good role models?

Are you worried that they won't be able to take responsibility for their actions?

Or that they will be abusive?

Or that they will be expected to take responsibility for their actions and not be abusive?

Or that they will come across abusive women and not be able to recognise that abusive behaviour for what it is?

What's the nature of your concern?

I don't think my post breaks the talk guidelines but mn can judge that. If it's not you, it's not you

But that can't be right, can it, unless you're a stalker?

Funnily enough, when I disagree with people I don't feel the need to vilify them too.

I think people who do need to say a lot about themselves.

It does sound very like you, so you're not actually a lone voice. If you can bear to set foot in the Relationships section again, perhaps you could chummy up and form a crack squad to defend all these poor beleagured men from all the insanity? Because that would be an incredibly important and useful job. And while you're both at it, you could demean and belittle the experience of posters who have experienced abuse and tell them it was all in their head- that sounds cool and fun too.

I'm not sure how we got onto whether feminists are man haters or not!

I've never met anyone in rl male or female that says that that is the way men are and as a woman you have to suck it up. Whenever I have seen it on mn it had rightly been jumped on. However that is not what this thread started about. There are some people on mn who are quick to accuse the dh or dp as being abusive and controlling and that the op must leave him.

I personally hate this kind of attitude, I think it lessons real dv and demonises men.