To think I am a bloody doctor, I shouldn't be working for a pittance after childcare?

[knackeredmother]

I am having a pissed off day so am probably BU.
I work 24 hours (plus much more unpaid overtime) a week as a GP registrar, this includes nights, weekends and long days until 10pm.
My take home pay is £1200 (after 5 years qualification).
I have 2 dc under 5 and employ a nanny as my son has lots of hospital admissions with an ongoing chest problem and my shifts mean nursery/childminder would be impossible. I also have no family to help out before I get flamed for having a nanny. There really is no other option for us that I can work out and nursery for 2 would not be much less money.
I pay our nanny about £800 a month gross for 17 hours per week (£10 p.h going rate). That leaves me £400 income to pay all of my outgoings.
My nanny has no childcare to pay for as she uses the 15 hours free government funding and has family help. Its not her fault but she has almost double the disposable income I have for working less and more sociable hours.
I'm using up annual leave today as poor ds is too sick to leave even with our nanny.
It's just made me think what is the point of going to work? I could stay at home, have no sick child stress and although I would be £400 a month down I wouldn't need to run a car, fork out bloody thousands pounds for professional exams and membership fees
I'm being unreasonable aren't I - somebody tell me it will all be worth it in the end!

I sympathise enormously. Childcare costs in the UK are astronomical. I keep banging on about it thread after thread, but I worked out that with my mon-fri, 9-5 job, I will have spent £160,000 on childcare by the time my two children no longer need any.

YANBU to be fed up about it, but YABU to give up your job for it, as it WILL get better. Mine have started school now, and although I'm still paying out huge amounts, at least I can actually afford to visit the dentist and optician now.

Ach well just look to the future, lass. There is more to working life than money. Easy to say I know, but I would give my right arm to be full-time my 'proper' profession (my job is only to cover my other life as a writer/academic, which pays literally peanuts), and to look at myself in the mirror and not think "oh you fat part time administrator, get a life"

Wages are one thing. Pride in one's work - that's another entirely.

DSIL is a GP, works three days a week for £50k, not sure where you are going wrong OP

YANBU it does seem a low wage for how qualified you are/the job you do.

Can't see how the nannies financial situation is relevant though. She has family help, so what? You want to pay her less because she doesn't have childcare costs?

You are free to quit being a doctor and become a nanny if you so wish.

I don't understand why you don't get tax credits or child benefit.

My friend is a teacher. She works 3 days a week. After childcare costs, she has £25 left, which doesn't cover her work travel costs. But she is married and her husband has a job.

But not ALL doctors earn that kind of money. I've already said DH does not earn £100,000. He is a GP and has been for years. He is a partner and admittedly is not in a high earning practice but he is in a practice that he enjoys working in. He works damn long hours sometimes not getting into 10pm after an 8 am start. He does not work weekends clinically but he does study at the weekends to keep himself up to date.

Don't get me wrong he earns an good salary but not in the amounts you have mentioned. He works hard just like the rest of us.

What does your husband do OP ? Makes a bet with self that he's a consultant on £200k a year.

The Dr's I know are generally married to Dr's and can therefore go part time. Those that are very career driven work full time because it's less hassel and more money.

Well obviously your Nanny has more money than you because she isn't paying for any childcare... But you know that. Thats her good fortune (or maybe she has engineered her life to be able to take advantage of family for childcare). Or are you saying you are more important than her so should have more money. She is looking after your children one of whom is ill. I personally really value the people who look after my kids and hope they are paid well.

Loads of women (well families) bring home virtually no money for years until children go to school. Point is you've kept your foot on the ladder and will be able to progress your career (and income) later.

You talk as if you are a single parent which no doubt makes everything even harder for you.

I think you know you're being irrational and that it will all be worth it.

But didn't you look at the pay before you embarked in your career?

The nannies costs are irrelevant to your argument I feel.

YABU.

Do you have a partner/DH?

Your obs and gynae exam may be £400 but don't you get given £600 a year for exams/courses on top of your wage? All my Dr friends do though these are hospital Drs not on the VTS scheme.

When you're fully qualified as a GP you will get lots more money. But seeing as you're a qualified Dr now it does seem like not a lot of money that you're earning at the moment.

If she is a single parent then she is in absolutely terrible situation. How can she pay for housing, council tax, food and energy bills on £400 a month?

Presumably you live with a partner therefore he pays half of the childcare costs?

What do you expect to be earning in 5 years' time OP out of interest?

Duckdodgers.... I dont think the op has stated but I'm assuming that you cant pay mortgage, bills etc on £400 and that is covered by a partner

That's why I asked if there is a partner...... No mention of rent/mortgage after childcare

If the OP was a single parent, which she might be, I guess she'd claim tax credits, childcare credits (move to a nursery) but it would be very very hard due to the anti-social hours many doctors work. Once you get to GP level, it can be made a family friendly job and you can work regular (demanding) hours, which is why it is really worth persisting now (and I'm sure the OP has made that judgement and is why she's doing this, she just forgot as having a bad day).

If she's with a partner, then the childcare should be considered a joint expense, which makes the whole thing look a bit better (400 pounds on childcare a month isn't soooo bad).

Childcare difficulties scupper so many people though, and it is often the women's part-time wage that then looks unsustainable, but actually, if the costs are shared between the partners (we take childcare vouchers out of both our salaries) it starts to look doable.

YANBU but I think it is just the lot of a mother who works full time tbh.

I am a teacher in a secondary school and I only have one DS, and I am left with about £400 after childcare, my nursery costs are about £750. I have to ask for favours from family to look after my DS for parents evenings, open evening, evening meetings etc, and I work most nights when he has gone to bed, as well as putting in an 8-5.30 day every week day.

I do miss having the time with him, but it is a necessary compromise for my sanity, for the career I have chosen and will have once he has gone to school, and I know that my future earning potential is good and I am ambitious, so I do what I need to.

I try to make the time do have with my DS good quality time, and I am lucky that my school is understanding when I have to take time off when my DS is I'll (like today!) as I obviously can't rearrange my annual leave.

Just stick with it, like others say, you still have £400 a month extra!

Don't jack it in.

I know it's hard to imagine now but in a couple of years with both children in school life will look alot different. Your childcare will be minimal - afer school club/couple of hours childminder.

Your 24 hour a week job will be envied.

I could have easily walked away from my career as a solicitor when DD who has a disability was young and I was was very ill.

BUT life looks very different now DD at school. I work 25 hours as a solicitor (school hours) and pay nothing for childcare during term time.

So many mums have said to me lucky you with those hours etc but it's not luck. If I hadn't kept working I would have really struggled to get back into law once DD started school and all advertised jobs are full time.

On a practical level - can you look for a better paid role/better hours. Your take home seems very low (and i'm in a small northern town)

Do you and your DH both claim and use childcare vouchers eg compushare to pay for your childcare? If not do asap and if your nanny doesn't take them get one who does. You save your tax and NI on £243 a month each.

Can you agree you will 'bank' your overtime so you can use it to take time off when DS has an apt etc. Seems unfair to work alot extra but if you need time off have to take it as unpaid/leave.

'If the OP was a single parent, which she might be, I guess she'd claim tax credits, childcare credits (move to a nursery)'

Nannies can accept childcare vouchers as payment as well as nurseries so no need to change childcare. She just needs to make sure that the nanny is OFSTED registered, but this is very easy to do.

OP YANBU and I feel your pain. I am an academic and started on £28k after 8 years at uni - after half a dozen years in the job on £35k now but when we have DC I know we will be poverty stricken hard pressed. DP works in charity and so naturally his employers exploit the hell out of him.

I think you just need to look at it as an investment period, though. I have senior colleagues who earn half again as much as I do, and one day we will get there, if Cameron doesn't shut the entire public sector down first.

I am also a GP registrar and my take home pay is just under double the OP's for 48hrs per week (full time). So it sounds as though she's taking home the correct amount of pay for the job she is doing. Like me she'll have become a doctor at least 4 years ago, though may be working in a hospital or in a GP surgery as part of the GP training scheme.

Doctors (and particularly junior doctors) don't earn as much as people think they do! And professional exams to become a GP cost over £2000 if you pass first time and we can't use our study budget to fund them (but can use it to cover travel costs).

It will get better, most GP salaried jobs pay £60-80k pro rata, and partnerships tend to be £80-£110k full time, but that has remained static for about the last 10 years, and is likely to for at least the next few years (so a relative pay cut over time). We're in it for the long haul. Though you could think of moving to Australia or Canada if you're looking for a more favourable training package.

Wow, what a lot of fast responses. Thankyou.
I will try and answer most of them but forgive me if I miss some things my son is currently puking all over me.
I am on the first rung of the gp training scheme (having been part time for a few years), this means I am a qualified doctor but training/specialising in general practice. This means doing hospital jobs which include nights and weekends. It will take me 6 years part time to be able to apply for a gp partnership.
I do have a (very lovely) DH. He is a self employed plumber - not a 200k hospital consultant (I wish!). We did receive tax credits when I was on maternity leave. We don't now as it got too much stress with DH varying wage but believe me he does not earn a lot. Our ds frequent admissions have crippled us financially.
What would make sense is for me to be full time and DH to stay at home but I couldn't bear to leave my ds when he is seriously ill in hospital, which would be necessary if I worked ft.
My battery is about to die and I have to get ready for my on-call (as although I have taken annual leave I still have to work the on-call component of my day until 10pm!)
I will reply properly later. Thanks again for the support/advice. I hope I haven/t drip fed, was just having a rant in my OP!

And after looking into it recently Night very favourable pay too! DH was offered $250 minimum in one practice not far outside Melbourne! We were astounded at the difference.

Imagine if this thread was written by a barrister or solicitor both of whom often get shit wages in their early days would the sympathy be the same?