To think I am a bloody doctor, I shouldn't be working for a pittance after childcare?

[knackeredmother]

I am having a pissed off day so am probably BU.
I work 24 hours (plus much more unpaid overtime) a week as a GP registrar, this includes nights, weekends and long days until 10pm.
My take home pay is £1200 (after 5 years qualification).
I have 2 dc under 5 and employ a nanny as my son has lots of hospital admissions with an ongoing chest problem and my shifts mean nursery/childminder would be impossible. I also have no family to help out before I get flamed for having a nanny. There really is no other option for us that I can work out and nursery for 2 would not be much less money.
I pay our nanny about £800 a month gross for 17 hours per week (£10 p.h going rate). That leaves me £400 income to pay all of my outgoings.
My nanny has no childcare to pay for as she uses the 15 hours free government funding and has family help. Its not her fault but she has almost double the disposable income I have for working less and more sociable hours.
I'm using up annual leave today as poor ds is too sick to leave even with our nanny.
It's just made me think what is the point of going to work? I could stay at home, have no sick child stress and although I would be £400 a month down I wouldn't need to run a car, fork out bloody thousands pounds for professional exams and membership fees
I'm being unreasonable aren't I - somebody tell me it will all be worth it in the end!

Thankyou for these lovely supportive posts and especially nice to hear from doctors who have 'come out the other end'.
I really really love my job and am incredibly privileged to be doing this. I'm also not in it for the money but it would be nice for my earnings to reflect how hard I (and all medics) work.
I was a graduate entry medic and am therefore rather old, I'm 37. Hence I couldn't really leave having children much later than I did.
I know it will get better and hopefully when ds spends less time in hospital I can increase my hours ( although on my VTS only 50% job share is permitted for hospital posts).
Anyway, I must run- the whole family (bar the dog) now has my sons sickness bug so the washing machine calls!

You wil soon be on £100k pa + so I won't be feeling sorry for you.

Just read you're post, Im a nurse with two young children (suffered my fair share of sleep deprevation which you cant understand unless you have been up since 5 am looking after a baby then been awake all night working). I work two nights a week and take home same amount, Im shocked that we are payed same, must say, I work in a hospital and often wonder how a doctor manages to juggle work and kids...I work fixed nights otherwise I dont know how we would manage. Think you need to hang in there...you'll reap the rewards one day..how about locum work...we have a bank and use agencies all the time, would you be able to work work around your life that way ? All the best anyway

Hi knackered!

I feel so sorry for you. I am a 3 yrs pqe solicitor and after my childcare costs for one DC, petrol/parking costs. tax/ni and student loan I work 3 days per week 9-5pm, for about £175.00 per week!!! I take loads of work home and am out of the house for 12 hours a day. My husband doesn't think I should bother working with all the stress it entails and the tiny financial gain. I hate my job but just want to work I suppose.

I really think you might regret not working if you did give it up.

Sorry, I didn't read the bit where you said that you are a registrar. Still, the wages seem awfully low. When my husband's cousin did her internship, she had small twins. She already had a medical degree from India but had to requalify in the US. To help out with childcare, she had either her parents or in-laws coming over for six month stints to look after the kids during requalifying and her internship (which was about 80 hours a week!). In their case, the grandparents loved doing it but it's not something that my parents would ever agree to do ( they are of the 'no thankyou, done with childraising' variety ). Could that possibly be an option for you though? I would definitely cut back on the unpaid overtime. You have to be firm about that.

Hello OP

I'm sorry you have a poorly child - it must be a terrible strain on you all and I can understand your current financial frustrations.

I am a GP trainer and partner and I have 3 kids under the age of 5 and work full time. I have no childcare costs as my DH is a SAHD. As a result, all the outgoings come out of one salary. I would love to tell you how much better off you will be in my position but I can't. Of course, I take home more than you but for working approx 48 hrs a week ( as well as responsibility for 40 staff, my trainees and some PCT responsibilities) I take home £2,900 a month which is only £500 per month more ( once hrs have been adjusted) after being qualified for over 20 years.

There is a variation amongst partnerships but the majority are struggling and it will get worse. So...my advice to you would be:

1. consider a role reversal when you qualify so that you work more and your DH takes on more childcare responsibilities if you are the higher earner

1. Consider moving to australia or new zealand! Wonderful waste of tax payers money in training but that's what happens when you squeeze the pay and pensions of professionals too much.( ......don't even get me started on the pensions!)

pinkraindrops your take home is only £300/mth more than mine as an SHO- that's awful!

Australia is a good suggestion- sad that this is such a real option for medical trainees.

Of my graduating year from med school- plenty are off to Aus/ NZ rather than applying for CMT/GP etc- with a view to possibly not returning.

BrightnessFalls

Ahh unsocialble hours

Bloody hell why didnt I think of that...

oh yes... single parent, no family and thus no childcare...

And apparently it's illegal to tie your child to a radiator with a bottle of milk for company

Hi Knackeredmum,

I really do understand why you feel the way you do. i'm not a medic (I'm in the accountancy profession) and had my first DC 5 years ago. Since then I've worked full-time, doing long and stressful hours, with a long and stressful commute, and it was knackering. I wasn't even in a job I loved - I was just doing it for the money. When DS2 came along, our childcare costs were E2,300 per month, which wiped out 2/3 of my salary (and I do consider this a cost to come out of my salary, not a joint pot). DH wasn't earning much so the bulk of our income came from me. Meanwhile all my colleagues and friends in similar-paid jobs to me, who didn't have children, were flying up the career ladders, moving into massive, beautiful houses, and me and DH were barely scraping by and getting ourselves into a worrying amount of debt. It was really tough, but I stuck with it a) because I had to for financial reasons (that 1/3 of my salary that didn't go on childcare made a massive difference to our income) and b) because I was concentrating on the long term.

I'm not quite there yet, but two things happened 6 months ago that suddenly made life a whole lot easier - my commitment to my work paid off, and I got promoted. At about the same time, DS1 started school. Bingo - childcare costs almost halved, salary went up 25%. Suddenly, we're starting to see light at the end of the tunnel, and you will too. Admittedly we're now using the additional money to pay off debts, but once DS2 starts school, it'll get even easier again.

Stick with it, it's tough now, but it won't be like this forever. And your DCs will grow up and be very proud of their doctor mummy

Medicine can be strange WRT pay due to banding distorting things - my DH is earning £500 pcm less than he was as an F1 (1st year) now he's an SpR (4 years in). His take home is £1700 per month for full time hours, as he's unbanded (will be for 2 years!) and student loan and pension payments take a big chunk. It's always about the long game though, and the rewards for all the hard work will come.

OP I sympathize, it must be horrible working at all when your child is ill. But, looking on the bright side, you do have an excellent career ahead of you - you're already earning what most would consider to be decent money, you can work part time, your earnings will only increase with time and you have excellent job security.

I'm a TV producer and as I approached my mid thirties I did wonder where all the women had gone. On the production side of things, they just seemed to evaporate as they reached 40. Now I have a child of my own and I know why. It's a full time job. Not full-time meaning 40 hours a week, start at nine, finish at six sort of job. But FULL time, some days working 24 hours, sometimes working weekends, never being able to predict when this would happen. Plus commuting of course. All telly happens somewhere you have to commute to. Without a SAHDP or someone to take DC to nursery and do the pick up afterwards, I was sunk. I gave up working myself and did some evaporation of my own.

Now I'm 40 myself and a SAHP with absolutely no clue where my career will be when DD starts school. In the bin, obviously. Cheer up, career wise things could be worse...

I am coming late to this, but just felt the need to add YANB, KnackeredMum.

I am a GP partner, have been for 12 years, nominally 25 hrs/wk, in reality 30-35 which is how much childcare (nanny) we pay for. We have 4 DSs, aged 9 to 2 which I had when I was between 37 and 44.
My takehome pay is @ £1800.
We do have a second income.

I continue to work because I love it, I see it as an investment in to my future career and to stay sane - there is only so much 'wheels on the bus' and seperating fighting siblings I can stand IYWKIM... But children get older and grow up.

So, my top-tip is to take the Long View.

higgle, I cannot tell you how much the £100000 myth irks me - I am sure there will be some drs earning that kind of money, but it's not exactly an average.

"you're already earning what most would consider to be decent money, you can work part time, your earnings will only increase with time "

$1200 a month (sorry don't have pound sign on my keyboard) is not a decent amount of money for someone with a medical degree. It's not really a decent wage for anybody. $1200 a week is just barely decent.

Mimi- mumsnet is a funny old place isn't it? On the one hand you've got threads with people bleating that 26,000 untaxed (benefits cap)isn't enough to live on. Yet on other threads you've got people saying that £1200 take home for a woman with 5 years training, specialist skills, working in life and death situations, paying childcare for 2 kids, paying all commuting, professional exam fees.... Is ' a good wage and she should put up and shut up!!'
Only on mumsnet eh

Hear hear callmemrs

The OP only works part time. therefore she gets a part time wage. if she were to work full time she would get a full time salary.

And we all have to pay for child care and travel costs and mortgages.

She does 24 hours 'plus many more unpaid'

Several people have suggested that having DC and GP training is not a good idea because of the hours. I doubt she can do more. Full time GP training is probably 48hrs

She may have a part time contract but the op makes it clear it is full time hours - including weekends and nights.

As for 'we all have to pay childcare' - well, the irony is, if she were working 16 hours in a low skills, no responsibility low paid job, she'd probably be getting almost all her childcare paid for her, and would be getting probably as much disposable income and a hell of a lot more time off. Makes you think doesn't it.

As the thread has progressed it has become easier to understand why OP is so pissed of but surely its all about joint income - childcare for example is a family bill not just the responsibility of 1 person - and the initial impression was that Op only had £400 left, but it wont be when DHs income is taken into consideration.

Callme and Mimi, the average UK wage is £26,100. Gross, full time.

If the OP is earning £1,200 a month net, for part time work, I think it's fair to say that she's on decent money. Note I didn't say great money. I said decent money, enough to live on. Plenty of women with small children give up work because it just wasn't worthwhile persuing their career, after childcare costs are taken into consideration. The point I was making is that the OP can cover her bills and keep her foot in the door for when the children are older. She could be a partner then, with no childcare costs, working full time and quite likely to be earning nearly three times the average salary. Good for her.

If £1200 a month net (which would be £2k ish full time, after tax) doesn't seem like much to you, what do you earn if you don't mind me asking?

I do understand Bonsoir's point about leaving off having children until fully qualified, (in my case 25) and then you need to work a couple of years to get fully established and so on.

It means women have to be so much more sensible than men about career planning. One of the new graduates we've recruited on a training contract this year is 31. 31! It truly is amazing how much time some people can spend at university, and after a point it is unhelpful and doesn't equip them for the workplace. He sits and ruminates and considers all angles while his line managers are silently screaming at him to get the job done. The luxury of late entry into the workplace is something that is so so much harder for women than men, because of the whole having children thing.

I used to work for less than £10 per day as an F1 i.e. first year after graduating from medical school because of childcare costs (nursery, babysitters, etc.) for my first child and that was before fuel for commuting and parking costs were taken into account, never mind registration fees, etc. I figured it would get better salary wise, but then I had another child and the costs doubled. I'm back at work and they're both at a cheaper more flexible childminder, but it's still not worth working for the financial gain. Luckily my husbands salary is there to pay the other bills otherwise I wouldn't work.

YABU. This is a temporary phase. Your earning potential is massive and doctors are on a pedestel in society. Not so for your nanny.