People who are late for school every day or almost every day.

[MrsJAlfredPrufrock]

Why don't you just get up 15 mins earlier?

The one good thing about this thread is it has made me realise that the 5 years ds has been in some form of education he has never ever been late for nursery/school.

I agree with you MollieO. I have no problems with people being very occasionally late through exceptional circumstances, and can understand that someone with a child with SN might struggle to be punctual (but would probably discuss their needs with the school to allow for this).

What I don't understand is perfectly ordinary people with NT children being habitually late. Actually, although ds and I are rarely late for things when it's just the two of us, add in dh and things change a lot! The difference I notice with dh though, is he doesn't plan ahead.

For example if we are going somewhere a 2 hour drive away, he will only factor in the 2 hours driving time. So if we need to leave at 9 am, I will make sure I am up and dressed and so is ds at about 8, then we have had breakfast/washed up/collected together anything we need to take with us. Then dh will get up at about 8.50, have breakfast, then at 9 (when we are supposed to be leaving) suddenly decide he needs to find things to take with him. Usually his study is in such a mess, it takes ages to find them, so we end up leaving at 9.15. Then when we get in the car he suddenly decides we need petrol (which he could have sorted the day before), so we have to stop off at petrol station. Aaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!

If a kid turns up a few minutes late for school, does it really matter in the overall scheme of things?

Well yes, as explained on the thread previously. At dd1's school they do the register & go straight into lessons. Assemblies are done at the end of the day, so if you are late, you are late for a lesson. Which disrupts the whole class.

But good on you for not caring about lateness, or missing lessons etc. My dd is 8, she has no sense of urgency, which is why I do. I do care if she is late, as rushing from one task to another is usually when accident happen, or mistakes get made.

When we have children, we all know they are going to going to school. We have a few years to get used to the idea. So it isn't as if it is suddenly sprung upon us, and something that we only about the day before.

I am not perfect, far from it! But I get my girls to school on time. Because it is important for them.

I also get annoyed with the everyday late people, but don't start a MN post on them!

But I did read something interesting about some personality types, basically they don't mentally plan for the time it takes to get ready & get there.

So if they are due somewhere at 9 and it takes 30min to get there and 30min to get ready, at 8am most people are saying "time to go, let's get ready" kind of thing. Things can slip, or some might start this at 7:45 to have that extra 15min up their sleeve.

But some personality types don't think like this. At 8am they still think they have stacks of time, at 8:30 they don't consider themselves late, as they still have 30min (even though it takes an hour to get ready etc)... so they still idle about, rather than screaming like a banshee and getting everyone out the door in 5 min. Finally at ten to 9 it becomes apparent to even them that they are hiddeously late, and they rush about and try to get there in 10mins (assuming they care about being on time, even if it is now impossible). They moan and whinge that everyone didn't get ready, traffic was bad, someone needed something as they walked out the door - but really it was the lack of time beforehand, not the other excuses.

It seems so bleedingly obvious to me that if it takes an hour to be ready and get there, that if you start this anytime after 8am you are already running late. And with something like the school run, it isn't hard to work out the typical getting ready and out the door times - you do it hundreds of times a year.

But apparently some brains just don't/can't factor in that time of preparation/travel.

Still very annoying, especially to the teachers.

'Not a morning person = a bit lazy, imo.'

Erm, Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder? Recognised as a disability in many countries.

I am 'not a morning person' because I work til 1am some days and do regular nightshift. Many other parents I know, do the same.

Personally I couldn't care less about late children. We usually get there as the bell rings.

Sometimes we are late because I am tired.

I think for me the main problem with this is that most people DON'T know which children are late for a valid reason and which aren't. DS2 has SNs, and we arrive at 9am every morning, by prior arrangement with the headteacher. Regardless of this, we are CONSTANTLY being reminded by well-meaning parents, TAs, other teachers... even though we've made an arrangement with the headteacher. We also get loads of "those looks" from parents. I imagine it's because when we arrive, we're not rushing (why would we, when it's pre-arranged), so people probably think we don't care. I refuse to explain myself to other parents. Those that know us, know better. I don't really care what the others think.

We recently spoke to the head about it, as frankly I was getting tired of staff at the school making comments to us ("you know, he really should be here at 8:55 for registration" ). His teacher and his TAs obviously are aware, so they don't comment. The head has agreed that she will make sure the other staff know, as it tends to upset DS2 when someone says we're late.

And this:

"Op have you tried to find out if there are problems and if you can get these people help or assistance?"

That would send me over the edge, it really would. I have enough comments and looks from other parents over this (very condescending, patronising, and judging). The last thing I need is another person patronising me and offering to "help" me be more organised. I'm actually VERY organised.

One boy in dd's class was always late. He used to play dad up badly once mum left in the morning and was always late. The school referred him to the Ed Psyc and he was diagnosed with adhd and since then has never been late. Some people are always late and rarely change

Oh, and I have ALWAYS been a "be there early" person - I HATE being late. But circumstances dictate, so there we are.

"One boy in dd's class was always late. He used to play dad up badly once mum left in the morning and was always late. The school referred him to the Ed Psyc and he was diagnosed with adhd and since then has never been late."

sigh. I can't imagine simply getting a diagnosis actually changed their timekeeping overnight.

I think those who late because of SN or genuinely struggling parents are the minority.

I'm obsessively punctual as a reaction to the lifelong stress and embarrassment my mum has caused herself and others with her serial lateness. My mum simply cannot get anywhere on time, and on the occasions she simply has to be on time (train departures, funerals) it is because my stepdad has spent the previous two hours harassing her to get ready.

As a consequence, they both turn up to all important fixtures looking grim faced and not speaking to each other.

My mum is never going to change. She is never going to accept that she can't get ready and leave the house in 5 minutes.

She does not have special needs, she is just a person whose need to do things slowly outweighs any sense of obligation to get there on time.

I suspect there are many people out there just like that.

Yes, and lol, cynical guffaw etc to the idea of 'offering help'. Can you just imagine the AIBU after that one...

This is an interesting thread - we haven't been late (yet) for school.
I work backwards so decide I want to arrive at 8.50 - which means we need to leave at 8.40 at the latest.

I used to really underestimate just how long it takes for us all to get shoes, coats, keys, bags etc ready at the last minute.

So I try to get us downstairs putting on shoes, coats at 8.30.

This gives us lots of room for slippage, which sometimes we need when gloves have disappeared etc!

I also have a rule that the girls are dressed before they go downstairs for breakfast which saves last-minute chasing around for them "just put your socks on aaaaaagh".

Nothing works perfectly and we have sometimes arrived at 8.55 in a bit of a sweat but not late (yet.....).

Thinking about it, deep down inside I think my mum feels faintly miffed that events can't just bend to suit her. The later she is, the more annoyed she gets. With other people.

Jenny70 makes a good point. Some people just don't get timing. We were late nearly every day for primary school, which was two minutes from home. Now, we also had quite a lot of family issues and an SEN sibling, but these weren't usually the reason for the lateness. It was because my mum is as Jenny describes. She has a completely different sense of time to other people. The older I get, the more I think she genuinely isn't capable on some level (and part of it is stubbornness too, if someone tells her to hurry up she has to be seen not to). She used to be so bad that she didn't understand that if you want to get a bus and the last one leaves at seven, there's no point turning up at half past and expecting it to be there.

Admittedly, the lateness was also because we all spent plenty of time gobshiting in the morning too. I don't claim to be blameless there. But not to the stage of refusing to go to school or having massive behavioural problems like some of the dc mentioned. We just weren't well managed! It is possible to have SEN, family issues etc, and be late every day simply because you can't get your shit together.

I'm not a morning person either, though not lazy, just not a morning person!

I am usually bang on time, and only because all my clocks are set 5 minutes fast so I always think I'm running late. Its a twisted logic but it works for me, if I feel like I'm on time, I don't seem to be able to get done what needs doing.

Some people have very valid reason for lateness, Triggles is a fine example of why judging isn't on really. Sure there are some lazy arse people out there, yes some of them don't care, but you cannot tell them apart always from people who have genuine issues/challenges that won't be solved by getting up five minutes earlier.

I hate being late, but its a character flaw, I find being on time for anything a massive challenge, I've found strategies that enable me to carry on without people knowing I struggle, but it took me 37 years!

Triggles maybe he did just start turning up on time, but I'll bet it was because the mum was offered a lot more support once she had a diagnosis for him.

I've been told if dd2 is diagnosed with something there'll be a lot more we can access including free taxis to school for one or both children if they are playing up and day trips for dd1 because as it there is hardly anywhere she can go owing to us not daring to take dd2 because of her behaviour. Soft play = fine but slightly risky for other children, same with parks, outdoor things. Anything which involves waiting around or breakables = no go. DD1 is desperate to join pottery club but there is no one to look after dd2 and I can't afford to take dd2 into a shop full of hand made ceramics.

It's very hard when you have a child with additional needs or behaviour problems. Getting to school on time is often the least of your problems.

Dd2 has woke in quite a good mood this morning. God knows how it was after 11 when she eventually drifted off. She woke again and got in with us keeping us awake at around 3am.

just wanted to add that I don't feel judgey about other people running a bit late, I just think "there but for the grace of god go I....."

MrsJAlfredPrufrock Wed 25-Jan-12 17:56:37
"cory - How many times do I have to say, this thread isn't really about people with understandable difficulties getting to school. It's for those who can't be arsed to get to school on time. "

Yes and how many times do I have to repeat that this is precisely why it is wrong to judge a person on sight, as you did in your OP, rather than from what you know of their attitudes?

It's the same with everything when you have a child with SN: people see you out and about and purse their lips because they assume that you have no excuses. And when you point this out in a place like this, they make you feel silly for considering yourself in the category of those being blamed, "because of course it's not about people like you". And then the same people go back into RL and see people like me and purse their lips, because it doesn't occur to them when they see me in RL that I am one of those people to whom the threads do not apply. And then they go back to the forum and post about somebody they have seen who might well be me because they didn't bother to find out. And so it goes on...

This is why people like me are constantly making pests of ourselves on these forums: unless we keep reminding people that there are more categories than one, they won't think of it. They will assume that every 10yo having a tantrum in the supermarket is badly brought up, that every parent running late has a slapdash attitude, that every person who is using a blue badge though their child is not in a wheelchair is fraudulent etc etc.

Of course some children are badly brought up, some parents have slapdash attitudes, some people cheat on blue badges. But if you judge everybody, you will end up judging some people "that this thread is not about". What I object to is using the perfectly sound dictum that they can't all have a valid excuse to assume that they can't any of them have a valid excuse.

Final effort : It is not judging people that is wrong. It is JUDGING THEM ON SIGHT.

(I have three children 2, 5, 7 do it's a bit chaotic especially if I've been nightshift all weekend and not had a chance to sort washing out etc)

It certainly isn't due to not waking up early enough. We're generally all up by 5:30am (DS2 is very early riser, and in turn wakes up DS3). I'm up at 4:30-5am as that is when DH gets up for work.

aldiwhore I absolutely hate being late as well. I come from a military family, and to my parents, being late was pretty much right up there with murder and robbery. Thankfully, DH hates being late as well. So this daily arriving after registration literally sets my teeth on edge. But it's better for DS2 (which in the long run means he is calmer and less disruptive in class, so it's really better for the whole class!), so that is what we do.

I do detest people being judgey. I don't have a clue what other children in the school have SNs or specific home circumstances that mean that sometimes (or always) they may be coming in late. I do see a few arriving regularly at the same time as we do. But I don't judge, although prior to DS2 I would probably would have. They may have very valid reasons, and it's not my place to judge. If they don't have valid reasons, it's up to the school to deal with it. Not me.

Just had another hellish morning thanks to 7 year old DD who is SHOCKING at getting ready in the morning despite constant reminding, nagging, telling yet she still doesnt get ready and has screaming ab dabs and meltdowns left right and centre. We are never actually late but we certainly cut it fine despite getting up in plenty of time, trying to organise the night before etc- she is just SHIT at getting sorted!

really lequeen - do you think you'd be able to sort out my ds after a week as well then?