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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Am I a spiteful cow or would this piss you off too?

227 replies

Flamemenow · 24/01/2012 20:39

I know this seems unkind but I really need a rant about my friend.

My friend was in a 'friends with benefits' relationship with a single man and as a result she had an unplanned pregnancy. He did not want her to have the child and said if she did he would not want to have anything to do with it. She wanted to have the baby so they agreed that he would not have to see the child or support it financially.

When the child was born, my friend claimed the benefits she was entitled to as a single mother. She put on the forms that she did not know who the father was.

Two years later she had another child with the same man, under the same circumstances. They have never lived together or even dated. She now lives off benefits whilst she raises two children. She has had part time jobs over the years to supplement her income but usually gives them up after a few months.

When I think about this it really pisses me off that I am paying to feed and clothe this man's children. I don't see why I should just because they 'came to a private agreeement over finances'.

He still lives in the same town and although they don't see each other anymore, she hears all about what he's up to and he seems to have plenty of spare cash - (lovely house, expensive car, holiday 3 times a year, etc.)

Sometimes I get the urge to anonymously grass on her but that would be a really nasty thing to do. Or would it?

OP posts:
RainboweBrite · 26/01/2012 18:09

I wonder what has happened to make you feel so angry about this now? Come on, you know as well as I do that you would never be able to look her in the eye again if you did!

yellowraincoat · 26/01/2012 18:10

There are other things that have a worse affect on society.

One of them, I'd say, is moaning minnies who judge everyone.

RainboweBrite · 26/01/2012 18:11

Sorry, posted too soon there. Should be if you tried to grass her up!

Flamemenow · 26/01/2012 18:13

I have said before, she keeps changing doctors because they don't tell her what she wants to hear. The last doctor refused to take her calls. She has been referred to cbt but went once then gave it up.

No one wants to say, you might be right, she might be playing the system. No one on this thread will even entertain the idea that it might even be a possibility. It's as if they have never heard of anyone playing the system before, never heard of anyone caught out and prosecuted for it.

Well, like it or not, it does happen and I think it might be happening here.

OP posts:
Flamemenow · 26/01/2012 18:14

Rainbow that's not going to happen. It's been discussed earlier in the thread. Wouldn't make a difference.

OP posts:
yellowraincoat · 26/01/2012 18:16

Do you know what? Yeah, she might be playing the system. So fucking what? I'd rather a few hundred or thousand people played the system, which is always going to happen, and we still had a benefits system for everyone.

Either way, she is at home for her kids - that's a good thing in my opinion.

And so what if she keeps changing doctors? Some people have a bloody hard time getting appropriate treatment. I have Borderline Personality Disorder and they keep sending me to counselling even though it does me no good. Stop taking the cheap, easy moral stance and damning people from your ivory tower.

If you're not going to report her, just stop thinking about it. Get a hobby, fill your life up with something that matters and stop twitching your proverbial net curtains.

Flamemenow · 26/01/2012 18:17

yellow You are kidding right? Me having a rant because I have an opinion does not hurt anyone or cost anything. You can ignore it if you want. It does not impact society, don't be daft.

OP posts:
yellowraincoat · 26/01/2012 18:26

Ha ha ha. Are YOU kidding? You really think that people's negative attitudes don't bring others down? It INFURIATES me to read people's crap on here about benefits. About mental illness as well. And single mothers.

The sneering attitudes can be horrendous. It just makes life that little bit shitter.

Whether it's on here or in real life is irrelevant. It all adds up to people being horrible bastards in general. Every time you moan about benefit fraud, it makes it a little more acceptable to whinge about it, to paint single mothers as villains, to say all people with mental health problems are malingering fakers.

Someone reads this thread and then tells their friend "oh well I heard about this woman who wasn't working and getting money off the government for kids she basically uses for hand outs". And the myth goes on and on and on.

So yeah, I do think people like you moaning on has an impact on society.

tethersend · 26/01/2012 18:31

If by 'playing the system' you mean 'claiming benefits she's entitled to' then yes, I suppose she has been.

Flamemenow · 26/01/2012 18:38

yellow I think you are confusing this thread with another one?

This one is about adults producing children without providing for them.

It's not about single mothers, or benefits, or mental health. These do tend to be the consequences of their irresponsible actions, but not what this thread is about. These are all things which have been brought up by other posters.

And if reading this makes your life that little bit shitter, while the hell are you reading it?

Just stop thinking about it. Get a hobby, fill your life up with something that matters.

OP posts:
yellowraincoat · 26/01/2012 18:42

No, I'm not confusing it with anything. I'm reading it because I live in hope that one day I'll manage to convince someone like you to stop and think for one second and then stop acting like a knob.

It IS about single mothers AND benefits AND mental health. If it wasn't, you wouldn't have mentioned those things. They would have been irrelevant.

What you're saying, at a base level, is that poor people or people who can't work shouldn't have kids.

Whatever the morals of that, you need to wake up and realise that people will ALWAYS have kids. It's a biological imperative. You can't legislate against it and you can't moralise about it. Because it will always happen.

So you might as well just forget about it, because it really is none of your business.

You've had your question answered. You are a spiteful cow. What more do you really want?

thefroggy · 26/01/2012 18:56

You're still missing my point though op. If she was so lazy why would she have even bothered to work when she could claim Income Support? That, I dont understand.

thefroggy · 26/01/2012 18:57

Oh and sorry, I had forgotten this bit. Even if you claim, you are permitted to work less than 16 hours so long as you declare it.

Evilclown · 26/01/2012 18:58

With friends like you op, who needs enemies.

SecretMinceRinser · 26/01/2012 19:07

Sovlets be clear on this op. When your 'friend' became pregnant you are basically saying she should have aborted her child because she would have to claim benefits?

thefroggy · 26/01/2012 19:12

Another point, if someone resigns I dont think they can claim jobseekers (someone correct me if i'm wrong). Op, just dont be friends with her anymore, you'll be doing her a favour.

missduff · 26/01/2012 23:36

Sorry not read all the thread, how old are these kids?

missduff · 26/01/2012 23:57

Just read through and seen they are in their teens. I would normally say that she probably should get a job then in that case, but by the sounds of it her head isn't in the right place. I think she needs all the support she can get from her friends and family to get her in a position where she feels like she wants to work .
I do think that working is good for the soul but I can totally understand why people who haven't worked for a long time struggle to go back.
If she was to work she'd definitely struggle to work full time but there are few decent part time jobs about and in her defence she won't be any better off for working. Why start working if ur gonna be worse off?

CowboysGal · 27/01/2012 00:20

Must have been great for your friend having you through all these years, spending time together, raising children together. How sad that all the while you've been in your Ivory tower looking down your nose at her.
OP I hope that if you ever become depressed you have a good friend to turn to.
I also hope you don't have many friends who talk behind your back about the crap decisions you've made in your life.

Acumenoop · 27/01/2012 07:20

So plenty of people have had your great idea before? Last time we celebrated its genius with a massive party called The Holocaust. Why do you think Human Rights are phrased in that way?

I think you need to seriously re-examine your values.

PaigeTurner · 27/01/2012 08:22

This thread is fucking depressing. I am probably judged every day by people like OP and others without me even knowing it.

I conceived outside of a relationship, while running my own business, mortgage etc. was so ill during pg and then couldn't work with young child so lost business and house. Was on benefits for a while - and according to OP I should not be allowed to have children as I didn't forsee my circumstances?

Sorry but fuck right off.

Flamemenow · 27/01/2012 17:47

yellow What you're saying, at a base level, is that poor people or people who can't work shouldn't have kids

This man is not poor!! He is a professional working in a well paid position. That's my point. That's what this thread is about. He is well able to support his own children.

froggy You're still missing my point though op. If she was so lazy why would she have even bothered to work when she could claim Income Support?

She is not lazy. I have never said she is lazy.

Acumenoop Last time we celebrated its genius with a massive party called The Holocaust

A bit of a melodramatic response to my suggestion that a man who is perfectly able to provide for his children, should do so. Also, a bit disrespectful to victims of the holocaust to compare their suffering to my minor rant

Anyway, I think that the law should be changed so that the mother gives the father's details to CSA and they then pursue the father for a contribution. If he says he would rather live in a box, then I think they should call his bluff. Men like this one can easily be traced because of the profession he is in. The money could be taken straight from his wages to offset the benefit. I know it doesn't work like this but I think it should.

I think it's a nonsense that he can opt out of any contribution just because it's agreed between the parents.

Agree or disagree, makes no difference to me.

I have enjoyed the debate but I do think we are going round in circles now and it might be best to put this one to bed.

OP posts:
yellowraincoat · 27/01/2012 17:49

So if it's the man you're pissed off with, why are you going on about your friend.

Oakmaiden · 27/01/2012 18:35

You see, I am not sure about the bloke thing. Because it could have happened many ways.... And I think it is really difficult to give a mother all the rights over an unborn child but still give the father the responsibility.

I just think it is unfair really - if she (accidentally or not) gets pregnant then she gets to decide whether to proceed with the pregnancy. The father's opinion in not the tiniest bit relevant. And yet if she decides she wants to have the baby then HE has to pay.... Even if he has no interest at all in having children and would rather the pregnancy was terminated. I'm not saying this is wrong exactly, but I can see that some people may feel it is unfair...

There is also the possibility that he WAS being used as a sperm donor - that he was sort of doing her a favour on the understanding that he would not be further involved once he had made his "contribution".

I just dunno - life is never simple. I think it is generally best to let people work out the best way to deal with these things themselves....

minipie · 27/01/2012 19:36

"She put on the forms that she did not know who the father was."

Well, that's fraud, right there, because she does know. So YANBU.

Oakmaiden I do agree with you that it's a bit unfair the man gets no say re termination. But on the other hand, is it really that hard for a man to make sure he doesn't get someone pregnant (condoms? snip?)

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