to think most people would like us to live in a communist country?

[wannaBe]

"landlords shouldn't be allowed to rent for more than x amount of money."

"People shouldn't be allowed to sell their houses for more than a certain amount of money."

"People shouldn't be allowed to earn more than a certain amount of money (I'm talking salary here not benefits)."

This isn't a thread about who is better off and who can afford to do what - that's been done to death elsewhere.

But do people really think we would be in a better place if we didn't live in a free economy and where we were dictated to by the state how much we could and couldn't earn/whether we could or couldn't sell our house etc? really?

"I just personally beleive [...] that one makes their own luck.

I will never believe it to be workable or possible that everyone has the same shiny pin start in life, it sucks..but it's life"

Not life per se, but life in a capitalist society.

We are all products of said capitalist society, even those born under 'communism' in the USSR for example- capitalism was alive and well in the memory of those who set it up. Therefore our values are bound to be largely in line with capitalist values.

It is these values, not 'human nature' which prevent communism from working.

allthatglittersisnotgold Most of my current circle of friends made a similar journey too.

allthatglittersisnotgold you're assuming that I haven't.

But I know a hell of a lot of people who haven't because of their environmental baggage they had little or no choice about.

How can we all have the same start in life? - some of us will end up with feckless parents (as seen on any Jeremy Kyle show), some will lose parents at an early age, some will have parents that split up. Some will have Karen Matthews for a mum, others will be Baby P. Yet more will have a loving set of parents who will walk over hot coals to ensure the best for their offspring. The lucky ones will flourish, the unfortunates will wither.

These are examples which will determine life chances and outcomes - none of them are dependant on finances. If you can't even level up the start line, how can you expect a level playing field throughout life? It's tough if you are on the losing side of the coin but the only alternative is to drag everyone down to the same level.

"It is these values, not 'human nature' which prevent communism from working."

Eh? What is capitalism's equivalent to Ruissias GULAG system? Where does capitalism inflict mass starvation on its subjects like that which happened 15 years ago in North Korea?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, all forms of big government, whether socialist or national socialist, have an unfortunate tendency to rack up an alarming number of dead bodies in a very short time scale.

I think actually human nature would prevent communism from working. We don't' want to be "equal" we are naturally competitive with others and want to be the best. We don't want to share our food with the animal that didn't come out hunting with us. Please don't confuse this with lack of compassion which a lot of the left do.

No MrPants - it's not a question of dragging everyone down, unless you think that having heaps more money than other people is the only way to be happy and rewarded.

'Tough, that's life' when faced with the homeless, or those without enough money to afford any healthcare, or food for ther familiy, is no philosophy for a civilized society is it?

"We don't want to share our food with the animal that didn't come out hunting with us. Please don't confuse this with lack of compassion which a lot of the left do." Well it may not be the same thing but it has the same result.

You misunderstand me, MrPants- it's capitalist values held by the people- the ones who wield the power as well as the ones at the bottom- which mean that 'communism' can only be sustained by force. People want their own money for example, because they know what it is to have it. Force takes the form of secret police, gulags, prison camps and other atrocities.

The North Korean Famine happened in a large part because of the collapse of its communist trading partners, and Kim Jong Il's refusal to admit there was even a problem. Humanitarian aid was stolen by the military and sold on the black market- that is capitalism. Besides, the system of government in NK bears little resemblance to communism.

Where does capitalism inflict mass starvation on its subjects

In Uber Arch Capitalist US of A, 1 in 2 people live in poverty.

Yep HALF THE POPULATION

Capitalism, you gotta love it.

"We don't' want to be "equal" we are naturally competitive with others and want to be the best. We don't want to share our food with the animal that didn't come out hunting with us."

I agree that people feel this way, and this is why communism cannot work; but I disagree that this is 'natural'- I think that this is a product of capitalism.

Real communism, as opposed to pretendy that we've had to date, would work on the

From each according to his ability
To each according to their need

I cannot see how that can be bettered as an ideal.

yy Tethers,

There are many societies in which people live equably and peacefully eg Ladakh.

I hope you guys Hully/Tethersend et al are not planning a trip to USA anytime soon, they'll surely have files on you already! Supporting communist values and activity!

er...

right

Actually, I haven't said anywhere that I support communist values.

But cheers. I'll put Disneyland on hold.

I guess that make me 'et al'...tsk! Story of my life.
DS1 is off to the US this year. Should I tell him to look out for sinister men in dark glasses...

But if everytime someone tries communism it ends in a big pile of dead people perhaps it is incompatible with human nature. Either way, given it's track record, I think it best we let it die in peace.

And Hully, there is a big difference between 1 in 2 people being in reciept of food stamps and around three million people slowly and in great misery actually starving to death.

Not incompatible with 'human nature', but incompatible with humans who have experienced capitalism.

They. Haven't. Tried. Communism.

They. Have. Done. Narsty. Repressive. Regimes. And. Called. Them "Communism." you moron

Could say the same about capitalism though. There is no perfect way to run a human society. Which is why a lot of the so-called 'supporters of communism' want to temper capitalism with a healthy dose of socialism to make a sensible compromise.

OrmIrian-just tell him not to tick that box regarding communism they put on the visa waiver!! I jest, but they do feel incredibly strongly over there about it, as I'm sure you know.

Try telling that to the 1 in 2 who are begging.

I am slightly perturbed (why? Why am I?) that that figure of half of the population of the USA UNABLE TO BUY FOOD doesn't trouble you.