to think most people would like us to live in a communist country?

[wannaBe]

"landlords shouldn't be allowed to rent for more than x amount of money."

"People shouldn't be allowed to sell their houses for more than a certain amount of money."

"People shouldn't be allowed to earn more than a certain amount of money (I'm talking salary here not benefits)."

This isn't a thread about who is better off and who can afford to do what - that's been done to death elsewhere.

But do people really think we would be in a better place if we didn't live in a free economy and where we were dictated to by the state how much we could and couldn't earn/whether we could or couldn't sell our house etc? really?

Just out of interest, has true communism been tried anywhere?

I always imagine that someone would have to be 'in charge', or can/could a mass of people self direct, like birds in a flock (thinking last night's Earthflight)?

Also, with regards to human nature, I know that we like to think we have come a long way since the missing link, but we are really not that far away from animals, where it still is survival of the fittest, with a good dose of luck thrown in.

A civilised society should of course look after its weakest members. It saddens me how many stories I read on MN of so many families with disabled or SN children who are truly scared of the future.

I know how my family coped before the welfare state. Very well thanks as they were wealthy and land-owning. Not sure the same could be said for the majority of the population. I don't know about you but I'd prefer not to live in a society where a large proportion of the population were just one meal away from starvation and one mistake away from being homeless (ie if they ticked their employer off). it might make my champagne and caviar stick in my throat

But to repeat myself, no-one on here wants to re-establish a communist state (do they?). No-one said that any of the abortive attempts to establish a communist state were Nirvana. All that has been said that capitalism stinks pretty badly too and that true Capitalism, red in tooth and claw, needs to have his claws trimmed and its teeth filed down just a little. So the slow and weak don't end up ripped to shreds. It's not that outrageous a statement. When some people are homeless and other people are massively wealthy, it doesn't seem unreasonable to expect the one to help out the other - through state legislation rather than the vagaries of charity if neccessary.

Socialism please, if I may.
To Communism, I would have to say no, Marx and Engels made it work on paper, Utopia sounds wonderful on the paper, but sadly it doesn't work in the real life, good combo, aspects of both that work, some good mix of socialism and Communism would do me fine.

"Just out of interest, has true communism been tried anywhere?"

Well me and a few others have said about 20 thousand times on this thread that it hasn't, but sure why not, ask again why don't you?

When some people are homeless and other people are massively wealthy, it doesn't seem unreasonable to expect the one to help out the other

Very well said. Who would not agree with that?

Pros and cons to both, in Communist regime, there is no freedom of speech, so forum such as this one, would be non existent, also there no is freedom of movement, you can't pick up your passport and go on a holiday with you family, it doesn't work like that, photo ID's are compulsory and I could go on.
Positives are fantastic, standard of very broad education available for everybody, including higher education, free health, in general safe environment, discipline of society as whole is high, expectations are high if somewhat forced, I had opportunity to visit on few occasions various places in eastern Europe in mid eighties, ugly sights were: people queuing for bread early in the morning, power cuts, police curfews to name the few, bare shelves in supermarkets, everything administered in small doses, censure on press, everything is censored, you can't just pick up any book and read it, if deemed unsuitable.

Tufty, SAAB is bankrupt.

And Sweden is not that different, it is certainly not some socialist utopia.

Ooh sorry paranoid, did I upset you?

I meant in a small community somewhere, not a country.

But whatever.

ParanoidAndroid, true communism has been tried, in many places. It hasn't been achieved anywhere - but that doesn't mean it hasn't been tried. Lenin and Trotsky didn't set out to create a dysfunctional, repressive regime. They set out to create communism, in Marxist terms. Of course they had many opponents, so they had to concentrate power and get rid of ideological dangers and so on...

Probably true communism hasn't been achieved anywhere because it isn't possible. Even Marx gives a very meagre description of what communism would entail - his more interesting, more intellectual work is a critique of capitalism. And it certainly would never be possible without violence. Communism requires ideological purity, which means you are always going to have to get rid of anyone who thinks differently.

A kibbutz would probably be the nearest example of true communism, practiced in a small community. It has the advantage that all members have opted in - rather than being forced in whether they believed in the benefits of communism or not - and can leave without fear of being purged.

Arsing off about the evils of the capitalist system on an internet forum is like a fish complaining about the preponderance of water in its life.

(Unless, of course, you're somehow venting your dreary, uninformed fury on the internet via a computer made from twigs by a worker's collective....)

Yes, we could try communism - but then Sir Fred Goodwin would earn millions from being in the Politburo - only you'd know nothing about it because the newspaper has just the one story and it's all about how f*cking great your community tractor is.

And you could try complaining, just like you are now, but then someone who works for Sir Fred would shoot you in the face.

(With Apologies to the Daily Mash).

Is Sir Fred related to Hully then?

Communist MN:

AIBU to be afraid that my dcs might inform on me?

AIBU to not want to make small talk with Comrade X at work, because Comrade Hully says she is ideologically suspect and should be shot?

AIBU to be upset that I'm pregnant and have no access to contraception because the Comrade leader wants to increase the population? or alternatively AIBU to wish I could have another child, only I'm not allowed?

tryingtoleave

But think of the orderly queue for the designated parking spaces...

Bicycle parking space, you mean, surely not the car

Are we not allowed cars?

You are allowed one, but I doubt you could afford one, but the again depends how high you are in the Party?

Only the dear cadres have cars, comrade.

When some people are homeless and other people are massively wealthy, it doesn't seem unreasonable to expect the one to help out the other

Erm but they do! The richest 1% pay 25% of UK income tax. The top 10% pay 50% of all income tax.

So the rich already make the lion share of contributions.

The way some people prattle on on mumsnet, they must think the £2.50 they pay in tax funds everything whilst the likes of Simon Cowell & Alan Sugar pay less.

Nice understanding kind communists rather than the nutty fundamentalist type would be great.

But then nice understanding conservatives rather than the nutty fundamentalist type would also probably be quite acceptable.

The problem essentially lies with the nutty fundamentalists (who are legion) rather than any one philosophy, as NONE of them have the cure for all ills.

Exit, interesting that you ask, in Soviet Union you could not just buy a car, You first had to get a permit. Not to drive, to buy. And those permits were not given our lightly, oh no. Also, an average family car was 7500 rubles when average salary was around 100, so even if you were one of the lucky ones who was awarded this coveted permit, it did not mean you could actually afford a car.

yes yes Soviet Union was not true communist etc etc. Well as tryingtoleave said, it tried to be.

Well said niceguy at lest in this country, things are still in proportion and in some balance, same can't be said for a lot of new European countries which virtually have no middle class at all, it's either mega rich or ultra poor, mega rich are not responsible for their poor in these places, these countries literally jumped decades overnight from on Communism to Capitalism with great consequences.

Nice little fantasies about cute communism.

Some say Cuba sounds so nice.

How lovely. Let us all forget about human rights issues in "communist" china, about life in Eastern Europe before the fall of the wall, about the oppression of those cute Cubans. You see, the Cubans don' t have the freedom to opt out of communism, they cannot democratically elect their own politicians and there is no free press. But as they have nice music they can just have some happy dancing kind of poverty, corruption and oppression I guess....FFS

Anyway, kapitalism clearly isn't the way either.

We need sensible socialism, but didn't Labour just make a hash of it?!

We need a better socialist party.