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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that nearly 200 people being killed in Nigeria should be more newsworthy

292 replies

ElaineBenes · 23/01/2012 20:24

What happened in Kano over the weekend is not even on the front pages of the so called international news websites like the BBC. I've had to search for any reporting on it.

Can you imagine if such a thing had happened to people in a rich country?

I think it's really sad that Africans dying isn't considered newsworthy. Are we really that racist?

OP posts:
foglike · 25/01/2012 09:34

This thread is stunning in so many ways.

The OP was remarkably sanctimonious and completely off the mark and now certain people don't know what they are talking about?

Someone's going to scream "I HAD A DREAM" shortly.

All because news in Nigeria isn't covered.

roundtable · 25/01/2012 10:34

Fog, seriously, sort yourself out and put your thesaurus back on the shelf. You are being so rude. Nobody is screaming, you are being very melodramatic.

The OP asked a question some people agree, some disagree. What has evolved that people have a problem with, is some very offensive views about English people needing to be white and immigrants taking over the country and all the jobs.

That is what people are disagreeing with. You are making yourself look very foolish yet again.

Well done Maya excellent posts.

jacobaz · 25/01/2012 12:11

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

foglike · 25/01/2012 12:33

What's with this thesaurus comment again?

I didn't say anyone screamed I said someone will (It was hypothetical) but thank's for the irony I enjoyed it.

And show me where i've been offensive?

You don't like my opinion that's fine.

As for looking foolish? Coming from someone who missed the hypothetical slant of my "I HAVE A DREAM" comment that's pretty rich.

mojitomania · 25/01/2012 13:36
PushyDad · 25/01/2012 13:58

This is going back a few years ago but an 18yr old white English girl was accused of shaking to death a baby that she was nannying in the USA. Reading the Brit newspapers at the time you would think that the US legal system was some third world kangeroo court out to lynch Our Kid. Her defence fund ended up with about £300,000 in donations.

A few months later, a British Indian woman was similarly arrested and apart from reporting that she was arrested, nothing else was reported thereafter.

If Maddy was the daughter of some immigrant living in Peckham does anyone seriously think that a couple of years later it would still be news?

The media report on stories that its readership wants to read about and that is the unfortunate reality.

forehead · 25/01/2012 14:22

OP. yadnbu. You can bet your bottom dollar that the story would have been more newsworthy if it had affected British 'business interest' (namely OIL).
The posters who are banging on about not being interested in what happens in Africa, because they haven't got a job etc, should remember that Britain has a lot of lucrative business interests in Nigeria which are providing jobs for many Brtish people in Nigeria.
BTW, it is racism.

MayaAngelCool · 25/01/2012 17:46

Mojito I am delighted to see that you have taken my advice and ceased rabbiting on about Africans. About time.

roundtable · 25/01/2012 17:52

I didn't miss anything, it was just idiotic and not worth commenting on.

Like anymore of your posts.

Pushydad, that's interesting, I didn't know anything about that. It seems to be that maybe media types think the general public aren't interested. They must be aware what sells and so choices they make must be based on that.

ElaineBenes · 25/01/2012 20:34

maya

I agree with a lot of what you said but absolutely don't think that corruption is as bad here as it is in Nigeria or some other parts of SSA. By any measure, corruption is far far worse in Nigeria than in the UK. It's far more prevalent in every day life there and at every level of society although the poor suffer more. It's not just that we're better at hiding it!

I agree though that we can take the moral high ground. We're just lucky to live in a rich country with strong institutions, good governance and well-developed accountability measures. We can afford to pay our civil servants, teachers, doctors proper wages so that they don't need to supplement by asking for bribes.

To pretend corruption in Nigeria is the same as the UK isn't doing anyone any favours

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MayaAngelCool · 26/01/2012 00:30

Interestingly, Elaine, there was a programme on Radio 4 about a year ago about corruption in modern Nigeria. Obviously these things are impossible to pinpoint precisely, but the upshot was that the present system of political corruption, from which much everyday corruption stems, was put in place by the British, who wanted to ensure that their man got 'freely elected' after Nigerian independence was declared. I was gobsmacked listening to that programme (it was on Radio 4, so it must be true! Wink).

There are other branches to Nigerian corruption which has a homegrown root: the convention for politicians to send public funds 'back home', either into their own pockets or into their home villages and to those who have supported them.

Well, the 'pockets' angle is obviously pure greed, as far as I'm concerned; perhaps in some cases it's greed borne out of a history of deprivation. I don't think that ennobles it: theft and greed is theft and greed, and whatever your sob story, if you are well-off and are stealing from those who have little and who are depending on you to help them out of poverty, that is execrable.

However, the 'home villages' angle stems from a generations-old tradition of having a responsibility towards your community. It takes a village to raise a child, and that child them owed the 'village' a debt of thanks for the sacrifices made for its benefit. It's still theft, but it's got a different slant from what most people assume.

The other side to this is paying one's political supporters - much as here people receive knighthoods or other political favours in return for financial and other support lent to political candidates. So again we come back to yet another point of close corrupt contact between our and Nigeria's political systems! Grin

I just don't think corruption is something that can be measured. By necessity it is usually so well disguised, so underhand: where would you begin if you wanted to quantify or qualify it all? So it really is wishful thinking to say with certainty that one country is more or less corrupt than another.

A Zimbabwean friend once commented that the thing that makes it look as though some countries are more corrupt is that their systems have fewer controls than those who appear to be squeaky(-ish) clean. Politicians will always push the system as far as it will allow them. Nigerians are gregarious people so it follows that whatever they do, they do it in a grand style. So corruption there is far ballsier in nature.

And what of the UK? I heard a story some years back that EDF, the French energy company, was failing badly in France at the time when they won the major contract here which they still own to this day. At the time, Andrew Brown, a brother of the then UK Prime Minister, the Honorable Gordon Brown (I use that adjective ironically in this context), was the head of PR for...EDF. Perhaps the whole thing was squeaky clean. Perhaps the Browns refused to talk shop or give each other a helping hand. But you have to ask these questions, don't you?

I am sure you can come up with your own list of UK public scandals over the years, you don't need me for that. Let alone the people who get jobs because they sleep/ drink/ snort coke with the right person; the talented people who get pushed out by insecure managers, and all the other everyday normal and ignored instances of corruption. We can talk about this stuff till the cows come home. We just can't measure it. And we should never, ever be complacent about it.

ElaineBenes · 26/01/2012 19:00

Interesting stuff Maya.

You can't measure corruption per se but the more transparency and accountability you have in the system, the less likely it is for people to get away with it and you can measure transparency and accountability.

You can also measure the effects of corruption - how likely people are to have interaction with corrupt officials etc. Of course there's corruption in the UK and every country. But you don't see wholescale selling of NHS drugs on the blackmarket, and certainly not to the point that you arrive at a clinic with a baby with pneumonia and can't get antibiotics because of stock out but can buy it in the market. You don't offer to pay off police offers who stop you for speeding. You don't slip an underhander to your kid's teacher to up his grades so he can go to secondary school. That's the kind of corruption you don't get here (at least I never have and no-one I know ever has) but is a fact of everyday life in Nigeria.

It's also interesting the whole state/ethnicity/home village perspective. I think if you have a strong and functioning state which people identify with, corruption at the higher level is less likely. If people identify far more strongly with their ethnic group or local area than the nation-state, then it makes sense that they would be more likely to divert funds to them.

I also wonder about how much we can still look to colonialism. For sure, it had an effect but other colonised countries have managed to move forward from their colonial pasts and conflicts - just look at Singapore! Why has Singapore, with all its cultural, ethnic and lingual diversity managed to become a stable and prosperous country but Nigeria hasn't? I know it's complex but colonialism isn't the only reason why SSA hasn't reached its potential.

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URallchickenlentil · 26/01/2012 20:10

There are islamist massacres everyday in someplace, philliphines, chechnya, china and many other places. The news would be very depressing if all of them were reported. Somethings we hear almost nothing about eg. Taoists in india of farce in columbia.

The media is not racist. How coverage did the youb white lad who had his throat slit ear to ear by a group of black teens receive.had it been a white on black the sky would have fallen in and the only topic up for discussion for days with the fat abort crowing from the roof tops.
News is relevant or interesting
I am more amazed at the total silence.with regards to the millions of women raped in the convo or south africa baby rape capital of the world

MayaAngelCool · 26/01/2012 22:13

You make some interesting points, Elaine. I take on board what you're saying about resources being scarce in official, but not unofficial channels. Indeed that is something which doesn't tend to happen here.

Wrt SSA putting its own house in order, that is absolutely right and certainly I said as much in my abused woman analogy - these countries need to take responsibility for themselves. I remember a few years back a brilliant woman, Ngozi something, who was made Finance Minister of Nigeria. She developed a system of checks and balances to force politicians to be accountable to the public for their spending. She had barely got her feet under the table before the bastards sacked her. Angry

But sometimes to effect change you need a few false starts and failures. Nigeria is changing itself these days. One recent development is that bribery has been outlawed!! Amazing, I know. Like every entrenched problem it will take time to permeate throughout the whole country, and no doubt it won't be for a generation before that poison is totally kicked out of the system. But things are already changing - there are no roadside 'checkpoints', for example. And, crucially, there are heftier punishments for those paying bribes - if an asker doesn't receive anything it gradually discourages them from asking. But hitting the payer hardest is, IMO, the most effective way to cut off the blood supply of this aspect of corruption.

Another thing is that aid to Africa tends to keep the continent more rooted in the poverty trap than does free trade. Unfortunately aid is still perhaps the main way in which the West interacts financially with African countries. This is why buying FairTrade is so crucial - far better to treat struggling nations on an equal footing and allow them to pull themselves up. However, the aid industry (and I use the term 'industry' purposefully) is long-established - it was in part the West's post-colonial guilt offering, and also a way, frankly, of keeping African countries where we needed them (ie dependent on us, to allow ongoing access to the continent's vast natural resources).

Establishing Free Trade agreements is no walk in the park - where is Africa represented on the G20? Only SA, that's it. It is not in our interests to put African international trade on a level playing field. Developing countries have formed their own equivalent group, the G33, but I barely know anything about what they do or how much global power they have. Sadly I doubt that they are on a level playing field at this stage but who knows what the future holds?

I know little about Asia, except that there was a similar pattern of the Brits putting Suharto in place as a puppet president for an 'independent' Indonesia. But I believe that the worst ravages of colonialism were exerted upon African countries - I may be wrong. I think this was down to pure racism - blacks were viewed as the most savage and inferior of all ethnicities, and this was borne out in the colonialists' treatment of them. Not that other nations were treated with love and understanding, but you see where I'm coming from.

You might be interested to listen to Andrew Mwenda, the editor of one of Uganda's biggest newspapers. He's on Ted Talks, speaking about 'The Curse Of Aid'. (Finance Ngozi is there too but I've not heard her yet). He puts things into context and does a much better job than me of saying how Africans need to pull themselves out of the pit they're in.

ElaineBenes · 26/01/2012 22:32

I'll look up that TED talk.

Kind of agree about aid (although I work in the development field so must admit to being biased!!). I think more along the lines of the inherent unfairness in current trade conditions being worth a lot more than aid rather than aid itself being the cause of problems. How can an African farmer even fairly compete when EU and US farmers have huge subsidies? It seems grossly unfair.

I think I need to do more reading on this - I've realised how little I actually know!

OP posts:
MayaAngelCool · 27/01/2012 10:32

Elaine, can I just say how refreshing it's been having thoughtful discussion with you about this?! Grin

I get what you're saying about the unfair imbalance as perhaps being the problem, rather than aid per se. And there are organisations such as Oxfam, who support locals in establishing their own enterprises rather than imposing their brand of aid on them.

And yes, farming subsidies! I'd forgotten about that! Developing nations are often criticised for not pulling themselves up, but few Westerners realise how the whole system conspires to keep them down. That, IMO, is another example of Western corruption.

You say you have lots to learn...me too! I have pockets of information but these situations are so steeped in history, wide-reaching and subject to ongoing change that it feels impossible to know what I need to know, let alone keep up with it!

ElaineBenes · 27/01/2012 17:59

Likewise Maya :)

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