to tell him to fight back?

[takingiteasy]

Long story...

My son is 6. My sister has 2 boys aged 10 and 5. For years now DN10 has been a little shite to my son, in fact pretty much since the word go. I remember him yanking his leg when he was a baby so yup, since he wasborn really.

It goes in peaks and troughs. Generally speaking when my nephews are at mine, everything is fine. As soon as mum comes home from work to pick them up DN10 flips and starts lashing out at my son. He's now 10, how much longer can you write this sort of behaviour of?

We do a bit of looking after of each others kids after school, one day each, for when we're at work. I'm going on maternity leave soon and my DN's behaviour has got that bad my DH wants to phone my sister tonight to tell her to make alternative arrangements. I don't have the guts.

Things came to a head in the summer when my mum was looking after all 3 boys one day. The day started with DN calling my son a peadophille, telling him he hated him since the day he was born etc... It escalated all day until at dinner time my DN got my DH round the neck and was strangling him. My dad lost it and hit DN. I walked in to my mum in tears, it was awful. The thing is none of us have sat down and had this out. I really think my DN has issues and would beneift from a refferal to CAMHS. The 5 year old nephew is also starting to copy this behaviour.

It will get better for a while but it is at that stage we avoid time together that I'm not in control of. I'm happy to have them at mine but don't like being at my parents when they are there (don't even mention the fucking nightmare that was Christmas day) or having my son round there as they do gang up on him. My husbands work has changed recently so DS has spent very little time there thankfully. My sisters lack of ability to discipline properly is a major issue.

Last night we were invited round to my sisters for the evening. Straight away DH didn't want to go because of all the issues. I refuse to let a bratty 10 year old stop me seeing my sister. So we went, the 3 boys were playing in the room and it all sounded ok. My son came bolting through to the living room and my DN10 was following him. DS hid in the corner and my nephew 'squared up to him' and was saying 'you think you're hard, c'mon then' - using an intimidating stance and voice. I hope people know what I mean when I say he was basically having a 'square go'. My son tried a couple of swings at him but missed. My sister was sitting there obvivious. It wasn't until I shouted at her son she actually said something. How fucking dare he try to intimidate my boy like that. There might be a 4 year age gap but my nephew is a small boy, my son is a strong boy and only a couple of CM's smaller than him. It was pure nasty bullying, nothing else.

When pulled up DN started spouting about how my son was throwing his toys about blah blahblah. Now if that was the case then we would have dealt with it. My son gets away with nothing to the point I feel we're on his back constantly whilst my sister sits there oblivious to the destruction her boys are causing.

So we left and when we got home I was so mad my DH and I told me son if our nephew ever tries to intimidate him like that again he's to take his hardest punch at him (DS punches his dad in play it hurts, he'd definatly have an effect on DN) and not to be scared of DN, he's just trying to play the big man. We told him to do whatever it takes to get DN out of his face and we won't give him a row. DN is going to get a fright one day, he treats my son like shit because DN is small and weedy and doesn't have anyone else he can intimidate and I'm not taking that, it won't be long until DS is bigger and tougher than him and I have no doubt it'll come to blows one day. I'm not a fan ofviolence, belieive it or not, but I will not let me son be treated like that.

It all sounds so chavvy and nasty and I'm not like that but I don't know what else to do. His mum doesn't give him a row when he acts like this, we're not allowed to as my sister is so defensive and protective. My dad is at his wits end to the point he flys into a panic if the 3 of them are together. My son is good at telling when DN does something to him but he's losing heart because nothing ever happens. So we've told him to fight back, and hard.

AIBU?

In all honesty I would protect your son by staying away from them and telling your family exactly why!

I dont think you are being unreasonable at all. I dont as a rule condone violence, but I do believe in being able to fight back and stand up to yourself. Most bullies are cowards and if they know that someone is likely to wallop them back, and that it might hurt, they tend not to keep up with the behaviour.

Sorry if I'm missing something here but why should it be down to your 6 year old to 'defend' himself? Surely as the adults in the situation you should actually talk to your sister about this situation rather than backing away and leaving your child to fight for himself?

YANBU in telling your ds to stand up for himself but you are all being unreasonable in not addressing the bigger issue of your DN's behaviour.

So you are annoyed at a
Violent and badly behaved 10 year old and are considering teaching your 6 year old to retaliate with more violence as if that is the only way to solve this issue?

Sorry but YABVU

You and your sister need to be dealing with DN behaviours. If he is that bad don't leave them unsupervised. Why let a 6 year old be put in that situation when it can be avoided. He ran away therefore clearly dislikes the situations you are putting him in.

I'm not saying stop going to your sisters but this behaviour needs dealing with ASAP and you all seem to be 'oh well a referral may help' but not actually doing anything about it! You could say 'I'll visit but I will not be subjecting my 6 year old to unnecessary risk so he won't come over to play til dn behaviour and aggressive action have been addressed.

Other than that you can go down the 'gypsy blood' root and teach our DS that
Violence and fighting is the way to resolve these issues

Exactly what Hexagonal said. I'd also mention CAHMS to her too. His aggression can't win him many friends.
Is he the same at school, or is your DS his trigger?

Personally I think YANBU to tell your ds to fight back, although I will probably get flamed for saying so.

I would, however, bite the bullet and tell your dsis to get a grip of her child or you won't be looking after him anymore. I know you might cut your nose off to spite your face but it might be the only way she gets the message. Plus in the long run your dsis not disciplining her child is going to have a detrimental effect on her ds's wellbeing.

Yes, do mention speaking with the GP or school for a referral to camhs too. There are families I know who they have worked wonders for.

When I say we've not talked about it I mean mum dad sisters... we've not all sat down. But she is well aware of the issues we have discussed. I supported her in finding some help for him a couple of years ago but it wasn't followed up. He's not my responsibility.

My son worships the ground DN walks on. He is not sitting quaking in his boots at the thoughts of seeing him. We had major meltdown yesterday when I first decided we weren't going to go to my sisters last night. He loves spending time with him which I think is even more dangerous as he's just accepting the way DN treats him as the norm.

We try to spend as little time together as possible but she's my sister, other family were there last night. Why should I be a social outcast on account of her sons behaviour. You also never know what you're going to get with regards to DN's behaviour, total Jekyll and Hyde stuff. I'd sat in the room with them for ages, made sure they were playing ok, DN was a delight. Then he flips.

I agree, stay away from them. Not sure why you put your relationship with your pathetic, lazy sister above your little boy. He is being bullied by this child and it is your job to protect him. I'd be trembling with rage if that kind of behaviour went on with my little boys. I did have a friend that had a little boy the same age as mine who was lovely and a brother who was 2 years older who was a horrible, jealous bully, pushing his brother when he was learning to walk, pushing hin down the stairs, etc. I had to stop replying to texts and gently let the friendship go as it was too horrible to watch. It is more difficult with your sister though, just say "I'm sure you've noticed the boys not getting along too well so lets have a months breather then see if they get on any better". I knwo it is tempting to let your boy whack him back but I bet the other boy goes running straight to hgis mother and he'll get told off.

Then wash your hands of all responsibility and let your 6 year old son fight your battles for you. Because unless you actually make the effort to "all sit down" then that's your other option isn't it.

And, for what it's worth, I would always put my child's safety above seeing a family member. Always.

DS is very much his trigger, him and a couple of younger boys he's around when he plays at home. Dsis is actually worried about how withdrawn he is at school and when I see him in the playground he's more often than not moping about on his own.

It's definatly a case of shit flows down hill. There's no actual bullying at school but he's not in a group as such, feels a bit out of it.

I also think there's a lot of jealousy towards my son. Dsis is seperated from partner, DS has me and dad doing things with him constantly. My DS also has my DH's parents around a lot whereas DN only has my mum and dad.

Well have a sit down conversation and follow it through. Badger your sister... Err if your concerned for your DS actively do something about it?

I'm not going to condone you teaching your DS that more aggressiveness and violence back is the answer... Which you seem to want us to do.

Did anyone tell you to e a social outcast? No. They said maybe don't take your 6 year old into that kind of avoidable situation until one of the ADULTS has done something to address dn behaviour or chased up a referral.

But nice to know your social life is the main priority

I don't think it's as easy as not seeing my sister. She's my fucking sister and despite her shit of a child I love her. I even love him for fuck sake. I'm not going to let his behaviour tear a family apart. We all look out for my son, my other sister, BIL, parents... we're not leaving him to fight this out himself. What I am saying is don't let him intimidate you.

Why should that little shit get to dictate our family dynamics?

People are right though, this needs to be said to my sister, no more pussy footing about it.

I don't think that telling your DS to fight back is unreasonable, but I do think YABVU if you tell him to fight back yet you haven't got the guts to confront your sister square on and tell her that the boy's behaviour is totally unacceptable and needs to be tackled! Otherwise you're putting your DS into a position of confronting the bully and getting into a physical fight while you all look the other way because noone will speak the truth about the situation.

Not fair, really, is it?

You think that having some distance between you and your "fucking" sister (nice language there about a relative) while this gets sorted will tear your family apart? Just wait till it escalates to the point where one of the boys does some serious damage to the other in this "give as good as you get" approach you want to take. Try that for family dynamics.

I love him for fucks sake?
That little shit?

This is a 10 year old probably
In need of some help and guidance and a referral.

You sound like a wonderful aunt really caring and all about what's best for dn and DS

And no need to swear like that because you don't get the 'well sit on your arse and let DS fight' answers you wanted

Yabvfu

CrabbyBigbottom You're right there and I realise it sounds like no one has pointed out to my sister what her son is like but we have and it does improve at times. Like I say you don't know what way he's going to go he's so unpredictable.

Kayano it was a family gathering. Just like Christmas day was. Should I opt out of these, deny my son seeing the people he loves (he even worships DN) until DN decides to grow up?

Your son needs protecting.

I had similar issues with our neighbour's son who ironically at 4/5 was hurting all 3 of my dc who are 1 and 2 years older.It got to the stage where after trying everything(asking them to ignore,reason,tell) I resorted to "just clobber him".

The thing is we don't smack and my dc are pretty good re hurting each other ie they don't.I just thought it was mad when I'd sat the 3 down and said we're giving you permission to hit him. They were arguing against it and were scared they'd get in trouble.I said only if he won't stop and starts it.

So things mosey along and he backs off for a while(it does work) but I was worried my dc would use force at school/home.My biggest child did clobber said problem child a couple of times after repeatedly hurting my 3 even after being requested not to.

It all came to a head when said pita or his older friend(the cause of the problem to be frank) I forget threatened to cut my dd's eyes out with a needle and she had nightmares,he was also using awful language so I just banned them all from playing with each other.

Only then did mum get involved and it's been hugely better since.

I don't know the right answer but you need to protect your child and the danger is he'll mimic said behaviour which was my biggest worry.I think you need to keep him away from said dn,have a talk with you sis and only let them play together when he's getting help.

Your dsis may never speak to you again or it could be a wake up call but either way your son's needs need to come first.

As an ex teacher I find this an interesting but hard conundrum and will be interested to hear other views re kids sticking up for themselves.

I'm angry, I swear when I'm angry. Shoot me...

He is 10. He seems to need help with his aggression and behaviour and you ADULTS need to address it rather than

'oh it will upset the family dynamic so lets just sit back and wait for this 10 year old
To change'

You need to grow up yourself imo

Yeah, it does.

Just keep your son separated from the other kid, and tell your sister why.

The common factor in all of this seems to be your sister, you have said that you DN is fairly stable at your house until she comes by, he sounds, on the face of it, horribly insecure and frustrated. And you are right when you say he is not your responsibility, your sister sounds emotionally neglectful and the child sounds like he is screaming out for someone to care... He is by your responsibility... But in all honesty , who is going to step up to the mark for him? Someone at some point needs to show they love this boy enough to intervene.

I'm the eldest of 5, so I understand how awful it is watching someone getting picked on for no good reason, and I also understand why you want to tell your child to just punch the little sod in the face, but if he hero worships him like you say, is it really right to hand over the responsibility to a 6 year old, and possibly reduce the people who care about DN even more?

Speak to your sister, and frankly, family or no family, if she doesn't get her arse in gear I would speak to someone in an official capacity.

I find it immensely interesting that you talk about not being one sort of person then refer to "her little shit of a child" not "stopping you seeing your sister". How about you all act like adults and realise that this little boy is clearly crying out for help and support, probably of the professional kind and teaching your son to be violent is merely recreating the pattern. Its not your SIX YEAR OLD CHILDS job to resolve this it is yours and instead of using absolutely atrocious language about a vulnerable kid who needs help you either help your sister get him help or you keep your child away from him entirely. You talk about loving them both and wanting to protect your child - act like it instead of behaving like a spoiled kid wanting everything your own way and taking responsibility for none of it. If you love your sister telling her gently that you are sorry but until she can guarantee your sons safety you arent prepared to have them together will almost certainly give her the kick she needs to deal with it. The poor boy has no friends, social issues and is lashing out and the people who love him refer to him as a "little shit". How delightful. YABVVVVVVU.

Jeremy Kyle would be delighted to help you and your charming sounding family. And you'd get 200 and a night in a premier inn.