to tell him to fight back?

[takingiteasy]

Long story...

My son is 6. My sister has 2 boys aged 10 and 5. For years now DN10 has been a little shite to my son, in fact pretty much since the word go. I remember him yanking his leg when he was a baby so yup, since he wasborn really.

It goes in peaks and troughs. Generally speaking when my nephews are at mine, everything is fine. As soon as mum comes home from work to pick them up DN10 flips and starts lashing out at my son. He's now 10, how much longer can you write this sort of behaviour of?

We do a bit of looking after of each others kids after school, one day each, for when we're at work. I'm going on maternity leave soon and my DN's behaviour has got that bad my DH wants to phone my sister tonight to tell her to make alternative arrangements. I don't have the guts.

Things came to a head in the summer when my mum was looking after all 3 boys one day. The day started with DN calling my son a peadophille, telling him he hated him since the day he was born etc... It escalated all day until at dinner time my DN got my DH round the neck and was strangling him. My dad lost it and hit DN. I walked in to my mum in tears, it was awful. The thing is none of us have sat down and had this out. I really think my DN has issues and would beneift from a refferal to CAMHS. The 5 year old nephew is also starting to copy this behaviour.

It will get better for a while but it is at that stage we avoid time together that I'm not in control of. I'm happy to have them at mine but don't like being at my parents when they are there (don't even mention the fucking nightmare that was Christmas day) or having my son round there as they do gang up on him. My husbands work has changed recently so DS has spent very little time there thankfully. My sisters lack of ability to discipline properly is a major issue.

Last night we were invited round to my sisters for the evening. Straight away DH didn't want to go because of all the issues. I refuse to let a bratty 10 year old stop me seeing my sister. So we went, the 3 boys were playing in the room and it all sounded ok. My son came bolting through to the living room and my DN10 was following him. DS hid in the corner and my nephew 'squared up to him' and was saying 'you think you're hard, c'mon then' - using an intimidating stance and voice. I hope people know what I mean when I say he was basically having a 'square go'. My son tried a couple of swings at him but missed. My sister was sitting there obvivious. It wasn't until I shouted at her son she actually said something. How fucking dare he try to intimidate my boy like that. There might be a 4 year age gap but my nephew is a small boy, my son is a strong boy and only a couple of CM's smaller than him. It was pure nasty bullying, nothing else.

When pulled up DN started spouting about how my son was throwing his toys about blah blahblah. Now if that was the case then we would have dealt with it. My son gets away with nothing to the point I feel we're on his back constantly whilst my sister sits there oblivious to the destruction her boys are causing.

So we left and when we got home I was so mad my DH and I told me son if our nephew ever tries to intimidate him like that again he's to take his hardest punch at him (DS punches his dad in play it hurts, he'd definatly have an effect on DN) and not to be scared of DN, he's just trying to play the big man. We told him to do whatever it takes to get DN out of his face and we won't give him a row. DN is going to get a fright one day, he treats my son like shit because DN is small and weedy and doesn't have anyone else he can intimidate and I'm not taking that, it won't be long until DS is bigger and tougher than him and I have no doubt it'll come to blows one day. I'm not a fan ofviolence, belieive it or not, but I will not let me son be treated like that.

It all sounds so chavvy and nasty and I'm not like that but I don't know what else to do. His mum doesn't give him a row when he acts like this, we're not allowed to as my sister is so defensive and protective. My dad is at his wits end to the point he flys into a panic if the 3 of them are together. My son is good at telling when DN does something to him but he's losing heart because nothing ever happens. So we've told him to fight back, and hard.

AIBU?

IMO this should be addressed at all levels.

You must talk to your sister. Not necessarily tell her she's not parenting well, but that you cannot accept that sort of behaviour from her son. I'd tell her that if she won't then I'd discipline her son if he was bullying my DS.

Then, your son. You need to teach him that his cousin's behaviour is unacceptable.
How to respond to it?
He should not hit in the first instance. He mus learn assertive responses, such as I don't want play with you anymore or stop!
If that doesn't work, then he is allowed to hit.
You can play scenarios with him, so that he has practiced what to do.

My DS has anti bullying classes that teach him not only the responses but also how to physically restrain and dominate a bully without actually hitting.
He loves them.

And to all that say violence is not the answer, what would you do if you were attacked on the street? I know I'd rather know how to hit back and escape than to curl up and be kicked to death.

Lueji

You're right I can't do one without doing the other. I haven't told my son to go round and attack DN. I've said if he's ever in a situation like that again last night and there is no one there to help him then he can hit if DN is in his face and trying to frighten him like that. Obviously not putting him in that situation in the first instance is the ideal but I can't avoid my sister forever.

I'm not talking about putting them in a cage together and leaving them to fight it out :(

My son is basically taught to throw the bully to the ground and keep him there until he gives up, essentially.

They had a girl there who was being bullied and it stopped when she applied the techniques she learned in the first lesson.

I also understand the pp who said to look at the dynamics.
One of my nephews can really wind up his bigger brother. Thankfully my own DS is in the middle (similar ages to your case) and he gets along with all.
But, as your dn is so withdrawn at school, perhaps he is letting out his frustration with your son... Or trying to get his mother's attention, actually?
Maybe he is just crying out for his mum to intervene. :(

I'm not talking about putting them in a cage together and leaving them to fight it out
lol
I got that :)

God takingiteasy, the more I read about this child the sadder I feel for him. He sounds so lonely and sad. I really hope you force your sister to step up for him as someone has too. No dad, no real fun, no boundaries and a mother too mired in her own shit to do what needs to be done. I have had depression and believe me I know how awful it is but ultimately she is a grown up and he is a little boy who sounds like what he needs more then anything else is genuine love and guidance on a longer term basis.

takingiteasy We have been through a very similar situation with DN (6) and our DS (4). DN was badly behaved when younger and he seemed to have a grudge for DS, he was very jealous of DS and would do sneaky things to be mean and spiteful to him. Dsis is a single parent too and the relationship with DN and his dad was not good. DSis was very aware of the situation, we tried to help out as she was going through some stuff too. It did get to a point where we would avoid seeing them but this would upset DS. Luckily DN's behaviour has improved dramatically since being at school and although we still have episodes, it is ALOT more manageable now.
My DN seems to have more or less grown out of it now and we like spending time together.
I would suggest that you have a serious talk about this with your sister, explain that your son is 6 (sometimes when we spend alot of time with people we forget the difference) not 10 and it's not acceptable for your DN to behave that way. You need to make a point of saying it though, if you can't speak to your family honestly about things who can you talk to?? I would then make a point of either completely avoiding them for a while (no its not nice but neither is DN's behaviour, whether your DS realises it or not), maybe this will make your sister realise how unhappy you are with the the whole thing and that she really does need to start doing somehing about it. If you feel you can't avoid seeing them, there's no reason why you can't see your DSis on your own without DS for a while.
It does seem as though your DN may be having a bit of a hard time at school, maybe not being bullied but is feeling left out, not having a group of friends to play with. Is there no after school clubs or outside groups he could join where he could make friends?

God sometimes Mnet makes me cringe.

Why is it all children who act like this 'need guidance and a referral', are a 'victim' etc? Had no one considered the chance that this child may actually just be behaving like a little shit because he wants to?

The OP is NOT suggesting that she leaves her son to slug it out with her nephew, she is wondering whether telling him to hold his own is appropriate or not. Questioning her parenting skills and actively looking for things to pick her apart on is just plain nasty.

OP YANBU at all, tell your son to fight back if necessary and tell your sister and your family that you have told him this. Speak to your sister about the whole situation. Anyone who suggests you are not putting your son first is just a twat so ignore them, it's obvious you are or you wouldn't be posting in the first place.

My DS also doesn't have his dad around and has gone through a lot.
He does have a friendly/strict mum who keeps him sane, I guess.

I would be concerned about his behaviour in school. Being good in class means very little about character, being withdrawn at break means a lot.
My DS is very picky about friends, but he socialises well enough and even though he has moved classes every year for the past 3 years he has quickly been able to find friends.
It seems that your DN has difficulty with social skills and may need help with it.

YABU

Man/woman up and protect your child from someone who he is probably very intimidated by. It isn't your son's responsibility to fight back, it is yours. You shouldn't be teaching your child to use his fists etc- it's morally wrong for a start and he could get very hurt himself.

As for referring to your DN as a little shit, is it any wonder he behaves how he does when no one in your family has the balls to stand up to him, a 10 year old?

Honestly, if one of DC's had been picked on like this from birth by any child, family or not they wouldn't have to see that child again unless there was a drastic change in behaviour. And I'd tell their parents why.