to tell him to fight back?

[takingiteasy]

Long story...

My son is 6. My sister has 2 boys aged 10 and 5. For years now DN10 has been a little shite to my son, in fact pretty much since the word go. I remember him yanking his leg when he was a baby so yup, since he wasborn really.

It goes in peaks and troughs. Generally speaking when my nephews are at mine, everything is fine. As soon as mum comes home from work to pick them up DN10 flips and starts lashing out at my son. He's now 10, how much longer can you write this sort of behaviour of?

We do a bit of looking after of each others kids after school, one day each, for when we're at work. I'm going on maternity leave soon and my DN's behaviour has got that bad my DH wants to phone my sister tonight to tell her to make alternative arrangements. I don't have the guts.

Things came to a head in the summer when my mum was looking after all 3 boys one day. The day started with DN calling my son a peadophille, telling him he hated him since the day he was born etc... It escalated all day until at dinner time my DN got my DH round the neck and was strangling him. My dad lost it and hit DN. I walked in to my mum in tears, it was awful. The thing is none of us have sat down and had this out. I really think my DN has issues and would beneift from a refferal to CAMHS. The 5 year old nephew is also starting to copy this behaviour.

It will get better for a while but it is at that stage we avoid time together that I'm not in control of. I'm happy to have them at mine but don't like being at my parents when they are there (don't even mention the fucking nightmare that was Christmas day) or having my son round there as they do gang up on him. My husbands work has changed recently so DS has spent very little time there thankfully. My sisters lack of ability to discipline properly is a major issue.

Last night we were invited round to my sisters for the evening. Straight away DH didn't want to go because of all the issues. I refuse to let a bratty 10 year old stop me seeing my sister. So we went, the 3 boys were playing in the room and it all sounded ok. My son came bolting through to the living room and my DN10 was following him. DS hid in the corner and my nephew 'squared up to him' and was saying 'you think you're hard, c'mon then' - using an intimidating stance and voice. I hope people know what I mean when I say he was basically having a 'square go'. My son tried a couple of swings at him but missed. My sister was sitting there obvivious. It wasn't until I shouted at her son she actually said something. How fucking dare he try to intimidate my boy like that. There might be a 4 year age gap but my nephew is a small boy, my son is a strong boy and only a couple of CM's smaller than him. It was pure nasty bullying, nothing else.

When pulled up DN started spouting about how my son was throwing his toys about blah blahblah. Now if that was the case then we would have dealt with it. My son gets away with nothing to the point I feel we're on his back constantly whilst my sister sits there oblivious to the destruction her boys are causing.

So we left and when we got home I was so mad my DH and I told me son if our nephew ever tries to intimidate him like that again he's to take his hardest punch at him (DS punches his dad in play it hurts, he'd definatly have an effect on DN) and not to be scared of DN, he's just trying to play the big man. We told him to do whatever it takes to get DN out of his face and we won't give him a row. DN is going to get a fright one day, he treats my son like shit because DN is small and weedy and doesn't have anyone else he can intimidate and I'm not taking that, it won't be long until DS is bigger and tougher than him and I have no doubt it'll come to blows one day. I'm not a fan ofviolence, belieive it or not, but I will not let me son be treated like that.

It all sounds so chavvy and nasty and I'm not like that but I don't know what else to do. His mum doesn't give him a row when he acts like this, we're not allowed to as my sister is so defensive and protective. My dad is at his wits end to the point he flys into a panic if the 3 of them are together. My son is good at telling when DN does something to him but he's losing heart because nothing ever happens. So we've told him to fight back, and hard.

AIBU?

Oh but Kate what about the social aspect :P

We are going to keep them apart as much as possible, my DH is going to speak to my sister tonight as he's got to go round to fix something for her. I'm just worried about how this pans out in the long run.

But why should your DH have to speak to her? She's your sister :S

Personally I thinkyour username sums it up perfectly and sadly it's going to fall to a young child to stand up for himself as his mother clearly values her "family dynamic" more than her child's safety.

'my DH wants to phone my sister tonight to tell her to make alternative arrangements. I don't have the guts.'

Your DH is right, you need to have the guts to protect your own child in the right way.
He's 6 and you want him to fight back? Why should he have to, and what will you do when he applies that rule incorrectly at school and gets into trouble?
Your first priority should be him, and he's put up with his needs being neglected for far too long. If you want to see your sister, GO BY YOURSELF!
Very bad for the nephew as well, that his bullying has gone unchallenged and accepted for so long, he's a thug that is being created by the ineffectual adults around him.
You are right, it does sound chavvy and nasty.

Lol at the appropriate username

Grow a backbone eh?

'I really think my DN has issues and would beneift from a refferal to CAMHS'

How about trying effective parenting first?

YANBU. I don't think you would be doing your ds any favours by telling him to hit back. However I would say that he has to know not to hit first. And there has to be a reason for him to fighty back so you might want to talk to hom about what is and isn't a good reason.

It's not ideal, and I would always normally do the thing about 'using your words' 'tell a grown up' etc. But if that isn't working and your ds is seeing that even if he does those things he still gets picked on, then he needs to be supported in learning how to stand up for himself. It is not good for him to get the message that when he does the right thing his cousin isn't punished for his behaviour. That could start to affect his self esteem and make hom feel like no one is bothered about how he feels. I would rather my child threw a punch at another child who deserves it than be made to feel like he is not worth it.

' He loves spending time with him which I think is even more dangerous as he's just accepting the way DN treats him as the norm. '

Abuser and victim, both children.

Dustinthewind - no shit sherlock. You ever told anyone in real life that their parenting sucks?

A 10 year old boy is not going to 'just grow up' and out of this behaviour. You should be the adult and protect your son, and, if you are as close a family as you claim to be, supporting your sister in a way forward to help her son.

The fact that your son 'worships the ground' your DN walks on would be even more reason for me to stop them seeing each other for a while, considering that your DN tells your son he hates him, calls him a paedophile etc. That must be so damaging for your son's self esteem! I have a six year old son and I would rather protect him from being exposed to this and risk a (temporary) break in relationships with sister/family than having him exposed to this.

As others have said, your nephew needs help and your sister needs to get her act together. Until that happens, you need to protect your son from this behaviour.

Oh ffs you don't need to say to your sister 'your parenting sucks'

You can approach her re her sons behaviour, have a sit down and try and help her and follow through.

We're you really expecting everyone to say 'teach the lads to punch it
Out and sit back waiting for it to magically stop?'

My nephew is the same little boy who say with DN all through his first week at school and helped him in the dinner hall, helps him at afterschool club... it's not hard to see why my DS thinks the sun shines out his behind. But it's all on DN's terms.

So are we saying its now fine and defending dn because he stayed next to him for a week on 'his terms'?

I just don't see the point in postin here when you seem quite unprepared to actually do anything yourself?

'Dustinthewind - no shit sherlock. You ever told anyone in real life that their parenting sucks?'

I've picked up a lot of the shit afterwards, and dealt with the children who have been made chopped liver by the crap parents that fate gave them.
I've supported parents who knew they needed to change and wanted help to know what they could do about it, and weren't blaming everyone else for what was happening.
I've involves outside agencies when abuse and neglect have been identified, and given evidence.
Enough of an answer for you?

I think some of you are being rather nasty.

It's not an easy situation sometimes nothing works other than somebody bigger turning round and retaliating when you're pushed into being together.It's bloody difficult to be frank as basically nothing works with some children other than outside agencies and if they're not your child you are totally powerless to do anything.

I was bullied as was my sister.I had to do the clobbering for both of us and it was the only thing that stopped both of us having a miserable time on the school bus etc.

Re my children I found it immensely hard and we weren't even in the same family.I struggled with the situation, tried everything.I was even a teacher and found this far harder to deal with in school as you have some power and control.

I have no idea what I'd do if it was a family member and I was in danger of loosing a loved one.

Best not to judge eh until you've walked in that person's shoes.

Takingit -Dustinthewind makes some great points but may not have done it in real life. I have. To my sister. It may not be that your sisters parenting that sucks - from the sounds of it you all need some education and a shot of realism. You seriously expect a ten year old boy to make all the changes, by himself and just grow up and yet you yourself have suggested there may be some sort of sn at play here. You, your needs, your wants, your sisters issues, none of them are important. These children are and both of them need you all to start prioritising them properly. And sending your dh round to do your job is just cowardly. You dont have to be nasty, you can be supportive and honest. And of course its all on DN's terms. He has no friends and has picked a younger child to show off to. That isnt the sign of a psycho it is the sign of a struggling child who needs help.

TheVermiciousKnid

Thats one of my dads main worries. My son is so accepting of whatever mood DN decides to be in and when we take my son out of a situation he always thinks it's because of something he's done. Yesterday when I told him at first that we weren't going to go to my sisters he was so upset and promissing to behave, as if it was something he could fix.

Like I've said they've spent less and less time together but I need to take the final step and spell it out to my sister why she'll be seeing less of us.

Regarding the hitting back, I'm not expecting a round of applause for it.

Why are you ignoring your DH? He sounds like the only one who is putting your son first.

Imagine for a moment that it's not your nephew we're talking about here, but another boy from school or a neighbour. What would you do then? I appreciate that it's more complicated with family dynamics thrown in, but your priority should be your son.

Sorry I mean-found this easier to deal with in school as you have some level of control,outside of school when it's not your child you have nothing.

Kayano I'll spell it out for you shall I? I'm using those references to make the point he isn't the devil incarnate, he can be so good to DS but pointing out how that must be a total head fuck for DS.

Clear?

Why are you ignoring your DH? He sounds like the only one who is putting your son first.

Where did I say I was ignoring my DH?

And if it was a kid in the street, I wouldn't let them play together. It just doesn't seem as easy to keep family apart and to what long term effect?

Taking could you take your sister out for a heart to heart on your own.Don't involve your parents or dp. Explain that it's really upsetting you and if things don't change you'll have to keep away.

Offer to go with her to the outside agencies and to support her.

Maybe you shouldn't allow your DS head to be fucked with then? poor lad won't know if it's his fault, dn fault, if he should behave, if he should punch... Just saying.

Clear?