to tell him to fight back?

[takingiteasy]

Long story...

My son is 6. My sister has 2 boys aged 10 and 5. For years now DN10 has been a little shite to my son, in fact pretty much since the word go. I remember him yanking his leg when he was a baby so yup, since he wasborn really.

It goes in peaks and troughs. Generally speaking when my nephews are at mine, everything is fine. As soon as mum comes home from work to pick them up DN10 flips and starts lashing out at my son. He's now 10, how much longer can you write this sort of behaviour of?

We do a bit of looking after of each others kids after school, one day each, for when we're at work. I'm going on maternity leave soon and my DN's behaviour has got that bad my DH wants to phone my sister tonight to tell her to make alternative arrangements. I don't have the guts.

Things came to a head in the summer when my mum was looking after all 3 boys one day. The day started with DN calling my son a peadophille, telling him he hated him since the day he was born etc... It escalated all day until at dinner time my DN got my DH round the neck and was strangling him. My dad lost it and hit DN. I walked in to my mum in tears, it was awful. The thing is none of us have sat down and had this out. I really think my DN has issues and would beneift from a refferal to CAMHS. The 5 year old nephew is also starting to copy this behaviour.

It will get better for a while but it is at that stage we avoid time together that I'm not in control of. I'm happy to have them at mine but don't like being at my parents when they are there (don't even mention the fucking nightmare that was Christmas day) or having my son round there as they do gang up on him. My husbands work has changed recently so DS has spent very little time there thankfully. My sisters lack of ability to discipline properly is a major issue.

Last night we were invited round to my sisters for the evening. Straight away DH didn't want to go because of all the issues. I refuse to let a bratty 10 year old stop me seeing my sister. So we went, the 3 boys were playing in the room and it all sounded ok. My son came bolting through to the living room and my DN10 was following him. DS hid in the corner and my nephew 'squared up to him' and was saying 'you think you're hard, c'mon then' - using an intimidating stance and voice. I hope people know what I mean when I say he was basically having a 'square go'. My son tried a couple of swings at him but missed. My sister was sitting there obvivious. It wasn't until I shouted at her son she actually said something. How fucking dare he try to intimidate my boy like that. There might be a 4 year age gap but my nephew is a small boy, my son is a strong boy and only a couple of CM's smaller than him. It was pure nasty bullying, nothing else.

When pulled up DN started spouting about how my son was throwing his toys about blah blahblah. Now if that was the case then we would have dealt with it. My son gets away with nothing to the point I feel we're on his back constantly whilst my sister sits there oblivious to the destruction her boys are causing.

So we left and when we got home I was so mad my DH and I told me son if our nephew ever tries to intimidate him like that again he's to take his hardest punch at him (DS punches his dad in play it hurts, he'd definatly have an effect on DN) and not to be scared of DN, he's just trying to play the big man. We told him to do whatever it takes to get DN out of his face and we won't give him a row. DN is going to get a fright one day, he treats my son like shit because DN is small and weedy and doesn't have anyone else he can intimidate and I'm not taking that, it won't be long until DS is bigger and tougher than him and I have no doubt it'll come to blows one day. I'm not a fan ofviolence, belieive it or not, but I will not let me son be treated like that.

It all sounds so chavvy and nasty and I'm not like that but I don't know what else to do. His mum doesn't give him a row when he acts like this, we're not allowed to as my sister is so defensive and protective. My dad is at his wits end to the point he flys into a panic if the 3 of them are together. My son is good at telling when DN does something to him but he's losing heart because nothing ever happens. So we've told him to fight back, and hard.

AIBU?

It isnt easy takingiteasy but then why would it be. Families, child rearing, doing the right thing, none of these are easy but maturity should allow families to understand that sometimes these things have to happen. The long term effect is showing your son that you will protect him no matter what. Isnt that enough???

MrsHeffley

I think that's going to have to be it. I have supported her in accessing support before but she either doesn't follow up or goes once and thinks it's sorted. She's also suffered depression and I just feel like I'm piling more on her but it needs dealt with.

I'm not sending DS round to batter DN and 'do my job for me' I'm just telling him not to be intimidated.

Yes I've sworn and called him names here, because I'm angry and doing it here - not to his face. He is a delight at times, that's what makes this so hard. Our whole family pussy foot around this though and it can't go on. :(

"And if it was a kid in the street, I wouldn't let them play together. It just doesn't seem as easy to keep family apart"

Yes, because we all know abuse is so much more acceptable when it comes from within the family

And to the poster who said about not judging until we've been there, take a guess as to why some of us might be so wound up by this apparent inaction on behalf of this young child's mother....

Kayano fuck off please, you're adding nothing to this and you're just intent on ripping me to shreads.

Go have your fun elsewhere please, i

Yes that's right nixea... that's what I said isn't it?

Christ...

I was responding to you spelling it out for me

I don't really want to fuck off though. Maybe your dn gets his aggression from you? ponders

You're right prettyfly1 I know you are. It's up to me to sort this out, I just worry about the long term effects. This issue aside we're a close family and I'd hate to jepordise that and I know my parents will support my decisions but I just worry about how that will make my sister feel, I don't want her slipping into depression again and things getting even worse and I've caused it. :(

Ponder away Kayano... ponder away.

But the long term effects on your son could be even more serious!

Actually, that really is what you said. I didn't post it back just to get your back up (which seems to be what's happened due to the increasingly snappy and rude responses) but in the hope that it might open your eyes to what it really is you're condoning here by allowing the situation to continue.

I understand you're using MN to vent rather that IRL but I find it enlightening and rather saddening that your attitude seems to be exactly the one you're proclaiming not to have in your OP.

However, as it appears we've resorted to swearing and name calling, I think I'll take my leave.

I think I'll take my leave.

Bye then.

TheVermiciousKnid I know, that's why I'm so upset about the whole thing. I value the support of my extended family and love my sister I just wish it didn't have to be a choice.

It needs to be sorted - after-all what happens if your new baby becomes his "trigger". The baby stands no chance

myBOYSareBONKERS
It needs to be sorted - after-all what happens if your new baby becomes his "trigger". The baby stands no chance

He's so happy about the impending arrival as well but the baby might just be someone else for him to resent. :(

Takingiteasy, I get that but it was actually Kayano who said that you dont have to do it in a horrible way. You can be gentle and supportive - go round there by yourself for a while, tell her you will go with her to parenting classes, go with her to the gp. You can show a truly loving side without ripping apart the family and if she wont accept that then it isnt you who is the problem and caused a rift, its her choice and she will need to step up to owning that responsibility. Tiptoing round this wont help and I say that as the mum of a little boy with SN and serious anger issues. I am probably the sort of parent dustinthewind supports and I say from experience - tell me my kid is a fucking little shit and needs to grow up and I will cut you off, tell me you have some concerns about him and another child and I am all over dealing with it. Its how you handle it that makes the difference but either way son trumps sister and you need to put him first no matter what.

And yes I'm being snappy but I don't care, there's some good advice coming through and I'm filtering out those intent on getting a rise out of me. I suppose I could have put this somewhere else and I appreciate the honesty but not from those intent on twisting everything I say.

I would never say it like that to her - I'm just venting and using angry words to match my angry feelings right now.

I can understand that - our kids are so precious to us, when they are being hurt its really tough not to react in a totally visceral way, I think some of the frustration here is that you seemed initially at least to be directing that protective instinct at the wrong person. Being really angry and venting is one thing but that anger needs to be funnelled into dealing with the problem properly - and aiming all that frustration at a little boy isnt that. You cant really blame a bunch of people who dont know you or the situation for then reading that and telling you it just isnt appropriate. I suspect you probably know that yourself. You do seem to be calming down a bit and thinking things through which is good, I just hope you can hold onto that moving forwards.

I did say to be supportive and nice but TIE just jumped down my throat and didn't like that I was the one who called her out on her own aggression and terrible language in regards to a 10 year old

Well I got filtered out and my initial advise was much the same as everyone else's!

God I really feel for you,depression won't help her to deal with this.

I think I'd keep your parents out of it as there is a danger she'll feel you're ganging up on her.

Can your mum/dad have dn on his own?I'm wondering if dsis needs some support which might help.

I don't know the right agencies but could you go with her to her GP and explain the situation and find out if she's entitled to anything.

Good on you op,hopefully somebody knowledgeable and slightly more sympathetic will come on with some advice.

She's spoke to the school before but his behaviour there is great, he's quiet and attentive. As I've said he keeps himself to himself in the playground but isn't getting bullied.

My mum and dad have him often and have no issues with him at all, put my son in the mix and it goes all shades of crazy. And because we're on top of my son's behaiour he's the one in trouble whereas DN gets away with it, which must be so confusing for my son. God it's such a mess isn't it?

My sister was recieiving support for depression and through that my DN was reffered for some counsellingn but it only lasted for 4 sessions and wasn't very useful from what I can gather. The agencies I know of will either need the schools backing or he's too old for. Because his behaviour at school isn't a concern it's hard to get someone to refer you.

The GP might be a good starting point though.

See your sister. Just don't take your child. You seem to prioritise your desire to see her over keeping your child safe and happy and growing up normally...I.e. where being encouraged to fight with your cousin isn't a good a thing.

You said in your OP that he picked on your son from birth...this has been going on for 6 yrs. Get a grip.

Look. This is going to be really hard for you to hear but is there any chance at all that you are wrong on this? The kid is good at school, noone else has a problem with him, he is fine when at yours etc etc. It doesnt sound like sn to me. Are you sure he and your son just dont get on? Younger kids can sometimes be sooooo annoying for older children. The reaction almost seems to be sibling type arguing and to be fair if you are a close family that is quite realistically how he sees your son - as a smaller sibling. In which case the problem isnt him at all - its in you guys - you dont love him like a son so you are flaring, your sis doesnt love your child like a son so she isnt reacting and your reactive children love one another like brothers so they dont get the fuss. Why dont you look at some of the strategies on the parenting board for warring siblings and see if you can get some ideas for dealing with it there?

you have let your son be bullied for 6 years?

Put your child first, if you don't who will. I just asked my DH what he would do if i was letting this happen to my boys. He said he would let me live with the sister and he would keep my children safe at home.

What will you do id your DH takes your son away from you, it seems to be the only way to protect him.

I don't think it is SN as such though, just behaviour and anger issues. My sister has issues with him on his own and with his little brother. He has displayed the same behaviour to his own brother and other younger kids when out playing. It's just when my son is there he and his brother, quite natuarlly I'd say, 'join forces' if that makes sense. My other nephew is 5 so him and my son are more on a par. They play well together until DN10 wades in and starts getting involved. If my son and DN5 have a disagreement (over who is playing with what etc, usual 6/5 year old stuff) then we deal with it in an appropriate way. If DN10 catches wind of it before we do all hell breaks lose.

I see what you're saying and have pondered that but it's the dynamics that seem to cause the problem in different settings and I can't make sense of it.

At my house, all 3 are fine together apart from the odd niggles.
My son on his own - no angel but on the whole fine.
DN's at my sisters - she has issues
DN's at my parents - on the whole not to bad but they have had some real problems on outings etc.
All 3 at my parents (and combo of me or sis present or on their own) - effing nightmare
All 3 at my sisters - god knows!

One day I had all 3 and was having a great day, my sister came home from work and the first thing my DN10 done was kick my son. I asked him why he'd done that after such a good day together and his reply was 'I don't want my mum thinking he's better than me'. So a lot of it is jealousy I think.

He seems to resent that my and my DH are together, he resents the fact that my son has another gran and grandad who he sees often. DN's parents are split, they do see dad but he's pretty feckless and his 'other' grannie has nothing to do with him. My in laws have even offered to have DN for sleepovers and take him to football etc but I don't want to have my son's time with his other grandparents infringed on like that. Is that wrong?