undercover police fathering children with women they're spying on is treachery beyond belief.

[alicethehorse]

Story here Undercover police had children with activists

"Two undercover police officers secretly fathered children with political campaigners they had been sent to spy on and later disappeared completely from the lives of their offspring ...

"In both cases, the children have grown up not knowing that their biological fathers ? whom they have not seen in decades ? were police officers who had adopted fake identities to infiltrate activist groups. Both men have concealed their true identities from the children's mothers for many years"

What a monumental abuse of trust

Well, the women who got pregnant are being blamed for spreading their legs...

he could've had a vasectomy then, and been able to have unprotected sex without getting anyone pregnant. Then no need to be 'haunted'.

And are you saying that all people in faithful relationships have unprotected sex?!

"The OP, and posts thereafter, focused on the belief that the women in these relationships, some lasting 9 years, conceived children as late into the relationships as 9 years, having being deceived for that length of time."

Absolute nonsense!

If you actually read my posts, I acknowledged that they may not have been together very long. I said:

"Excuse me, but I also had a baby with someone I'd not been with very long.

Several years later my lovely DP is here next to me and my lovely DS is asleep downstairs. I knew I was taking a chance to have a baby with a man I hadn't been with for long, but it felt right (and we've been proved right).

At the time I considered the possible risks of having a baby with someone I hadn't known that long - but not one of them was that he might be spying on me and would bugger off when his assignment was over!"

This is why spying on people is kept secret from the public even years and years after the event - the work is necessary for the safety of the state and the public, but often it is not nice or moral or maybe even legal.

That's why they keep it secret for so long so as not to upset the public (or have to answer difficult questions about ethics).

Look at what the bombing of Coventry - they knew it was going to happen, but they couldn't stop it without alerting the enemy of the spies so they sacrificed it "for the greater good".

HungryHelga he should not have been in a relationship with the woman!

It's totally unethical, and not something the police force condone.

Sorry it wasn't to protect the spies, it was to keep the Enigma Cipher machine a secret.

and of course this revelation is contested by the government.

But we're not in the middle of a world war!!

because he could just say 'i don't want to be a dad yet'.

if that caused friction in the relationship, he could still have remained friends with the people he got to know through the woman.

SHE on the other hand thinks that they are in a stable, committed relationship, but he is fully aware that she doesn't even know his name

I actually think some of this "work" may be against the interests of public and state, particularly when they're siding with big business against environmental campaigners.

Every other deadbeat dad on the planet could also just say "I don't want to be a dad yet" but they don't, or a baby is made somehow anyway. These policemen are still human. Just because they are a policeman doesn't make them a nice person.

motherofallhangovers why should it matter? Security of the state is a concern in times of peace as well as war for all nations.

Our country was built by big businesses, of course the country's police force will side with them.

I can't believe anyone thinks "The State" is just some big kindly uncle keeping us all safe, and that we must never question what is done, just accept that it was for our own good.

I haven't said that have I? I also haven't said it was for our own good, what is good for the country is not necessarily good for the individual.

We are a capitalist society, without big business (be that the Empire in the Victorian age or the City nowadays) we wouldn't be where we are now ( with both the good and the bad that that brings).

Capitalism pays wages which pays the taxes which fund the government. The government create the laws which the police uphold.

But I'd still rather live in a capitalist democracy than in a communist or fascist state so I can have debates like this? Wouldn't you? At least we are allowed to argue and question the government.

FelicityWits Two undercover police officers fathered children...both men and their partners had an equal responsibility to consider contraception. Do we know if the women were taking precautions? Do we know if men used condoms? NO, we don't. Will we ever know? Probably not.

What is clear, from article, is that neither child was conceived in the '9th year of a relationship' time frame as is assumed discussed above in the thread.

Horrible to be deceived in a relationship in any way, I agree...but many women (and Men) are duped into damaging relationships every day (cites MN AIBU 'Leave the Bastard', 1999 - present day, Roberts. J & Longton. C, Mumsnet Press, London) with far more tragic consequences.

Ok now I'm going to bed since I've killed the thread

Just to set the record straight, I love a good conspiracy theory and I'm really not some nutty goverment loving wierdo (although if I am being spied on right now, then of course I am!!! ) I'm just saying what I think about why the government acts the way it does. As I said earlier, in no way do I agree with what those policemen did to those women - and that's why I would probably not be cut out for that kind of work.

Nighty night.

And where has all that buisiness sucess got us? To a point where we are consuming resources in the west far beyond our planets capability to sustain the consumption. And the people who have the power to stop this, to make the laws and changes that will mean our (and other species) survival into the future, are not doing it because it would impact upon their ability to stinking rich.
Capitalism is a non-sustainable system that only benefits those at the top.

ok so I didn't kill the thread

motherofallhangovers No you didn't say that...others did, but the article gives that impression

Bloody press, and not even a DM article, you're raising the tone (if not the journalistic integrity) here Mother

It matters that the actions of the police and other security agencies is appropriate to the threat.

In a war situation there are likely to be many, many lives at stake, and so it's logical that they should have a freer hand to do what they need to to save those lives.

But, we're talking about activists here, none of whom as far as we know are accused of endangering lives.

I'm not sure operations like this is about security of the state as much as fear of alternative cultures. The police have a long history of being very heavy handed with people living alternative lives.

This is still remembered by many for example:

The video shows the police being excessively heavy handed, they beat women and children and trashed the buses that were their homes, rendering them homeless. There was a TV camera crew there who recorded the whole thing for the evening news, the reporter was visibly shocked. It was never transmitted.

I'm not anti-police, btw, far from it! My SIL is a Policewoman and I have so much respect for her, she is one of the most moral people I know (and great company).

But I want to live in a society where people's basic freedoms and humanity are respected. And if they're not, then that matters.

*To be
And no you did not! Let's see if I have.

fridakahlo sadly you're right.

Actually, your belief in the unity of interests of corporations and the state sounds more like fascism than capitalist democracy.