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Original poster

undercover police fathering children with women they're spying on is treachery beyond belief.

181 replies

alicethehorse · 20/01/2012 22:16

Story here Undercover police had children with activists

"Two undercover police officers secretly fathered children with political campaigners they had been sent to spy on and later disappeared completely from the lives of their offspring ...

"In both cases, the children have grown up not knowing that their biological fathers ? whom they have not seen in decades ? were police officers who had adopted fake identities to infiltrate activist groups. Both men have concealed their true identities from the children's mothers for many years"

What a monumental abuse of trust Angry

OP posts:
MmeLindor. · 20/01/2012 22:51

What organisations were targeted? Why is Troisgarcon talking about ALF?

From what I can see they were more lentil-weavery activists, than hardened terrorists.

And yes, it must have been horrible to discover that your life was founded on a lie (for the children) and that the person you were with for months or years was only with you because he was being paid for it.

GypsyMoth · 20/01/2012 22:51

Yeah.... That's what they say they do. What us the illegal but? The stuff that makes police involvement at this level, necessary..... You know, the hidden stuff they don't promote?

AmberLeaf · 20/01/2012 22:53

From reading the article those women were lied to from the outset about who they were having a relationship with [be it 18 months or 9 yrs]

That is what makes it so very wrong and I dont understand how anyone could say the women were wrong?

RitaMorgan · 20/01/2012 22:57

MmeLindor - I think they attempted to infiltrate ALF in the 1980s? Most of the groups were Greenpeace, Globalise Resistance, Reclaim the Streets, and other environmental groups.

animula · 20/01/2012 22:57

As to the issue of what it must be like for the women: well, I imagine it's like realising that someone you've been extremely intimate with is, in fact, a sociopathic fantasist. ie. pretty shocking. The fact that it's legitimated by the state ... well, I'm sure it doesn't make it any better.

I wonder about the chaps - I think they must get off on the whole "I'm in a John le Carre novel" thing. Idiots.

FelicityWits · 20/01/2012 22:58

they 'spread their legs', Amber. Dirty hippy whores deserve everything they get, apparently.

of course shagging women unprotected under false pretenses is essential for national security.

animula · 20/01/2012 22:58

that should be "alternate universe".

RitaMorgan · 20/01/2012 22:59

Olympia - the point is that this level of police surveillance is completely disproportionate. The only explanation I can see is that groups that for eg try to shut down power stations cost powerful corporations a lot of money.

FantasticDay · 20/01/2012 22:59

Nothing I've read links these operations with ALF, though they did infiltrate Stop the War, Youth Against Racism, Earth First, and Climate Camp.

"In one document, marked "secret", police chiefs lay out what they believed to be the legal justification for Kennedy's surveillance operation, stating that the environmental campaigners could cause "severe economic loss to the United Kingdom" and an "adverse effect on the public's feeling of safety and security".

Those police claims, along with the broader suggestion that environmental activists threaten the national infrastructure of the UK, have been repeatedly challenged in court. All 26 activists police wanted to prosecute for conspiring to trespass at the Nottinghamshire power station either had their trials abandoned or their convictions quashed following the Kennedy controversy.

Sentencing 20 of the activists in January, a judge at Nottingham crown court said he accepted they had intended a peaceful protest and had the "highest possible motives", describing the group as "honest, sincere, conscientious, intelligent, committed, dedicated, caring". www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/oct/20/met-crisis-activist-spying-operation

animula · 20/01/2012 23:02

"severe economic loss to the United Kingdom"

Oh my. They soooo were looking in the right direction there. Oh yes.

BeyondTheLimitsOfAcceptability · 20/01/2012 23:03

But even if it was ALF, surely obtaining sex by deception (?) is basically rape? Is it okay to rape the bad guys as part of the investigation?

Sandalwood · 20/01/2012 23:03

And didn't Kennedy fund them (petrol/vehicles etc)?

MrsTerryPratchett · 20/01/2012 23:04

animula what? You think Youth Against Racism weren't involved in the global economic collapse downturn? You are soooo naive.

VeryLittleGravitas · 20/01/2012 23:05

Mark Kennedy thought he'd be able to infiltrate the more militant faction of the ALF by getting into bed with Greenpeace Hmm

FWIW, I was one of these 'dangerous terrorists' in the late 80's and early 90's. Most of our security threatening activities were the stuff of comedy...infiltrating nuclear bases dressed as pink beagles. The incendiary devices used by the ALF at the time were designed to generate large amounts of smoke (without heat or flame) in order to trip the sprinkler systems of stores selling fur, ruining the stock in the process.

RitaMorgan · 20/01/2012 23:07

Many of the women deceived by these policemen weren't even politically active/involved - they were simply used to bolster the cover story.

BeyondTheLimitsOfAcceptability · 20/01/2012 23:09

Verylittle are you married now? if you are, when did you meet DH...? Wink

PreviouslyonLost · 20/01/2012 23:14

MmeLindor because the 'Lentil Weavers' are all love and peace aren't they...

Off topic, but,

www.highland-news.co.uk/News/Inverness-mother-guilty-of-killing-her-daughter-11072011.htm

No one person, whatever 'group' they belong to, no matter how 'innocent' or 'passive' a situation seems, are immune to carrying out actions that are inhumane.

The women in OP's post were, in certain ways, deceived I agree...I'd be interested to know however who took the decision to concieve the children in question? Unlikely we'll ever know the truth.

MmeLindor. · 20/01/2012 23:14

Animula
Look at the outrage when NoW tapped phones and violated the privacy of Slebs and politicians, compared to the "oh, well they spread their legs" comments when women were conned into a faux relationship in order to get information.

In both cases, the aim of the mission was retrieval of information. And both cases were deeply immoral.

VeryLittleGravitas · 20/01/2012 23:14

He's very, very deep undercover if that's the case...maybe I've turned him? Grin

mercibucket · 20/01/2012 23:15

Oooh yes, evil green hippies. Better give them lots of cash, help them organise their campaigns then get them pregnant. That'll learn 'em

mercibucket · 20/01/2012 23:15

Oooh yes, evil green hippies. Better give them lots of cash, help them organise their campaigns then get them pregnant. That'll learn 'em

Magneto · 20/01/2012 23:15

Stopping severe economic loss to the UK (or any country) is essential - or we end up in a depression/credit crunch etc you know, people losing jobs, money being worth less than the wheelbarrow you are carting it around in to try and buy your stale crust of bread...ok now I'm being overdramatic but it's not like it hasn't happened before.

And as for shutting down power stations - how many lives does that endanger? How many people on life support etc? I know the hospitals have back up generators but that doesn't mean we should let them get on with shutting down the power stations whenever they want to.

Yes these groups appear peaceful on the outside but that's because they have to or they would never get any support/money/power. They need to be infiltrated to get to the extreme fanatics which will either be at the centre of the organisation or part of an fanatic branch of it. The same way that religious cults (and established religions themselves imo) also need to be monitored.

I am not condoning these particular policemen's actions, I think it's abhorrent. But the job needs to be done and how else do you expect them to gain the trust of the group and become an accepted member of it if they don't ever bond or develop relationships with the members?

MmeLindor. · 20/01/2012 23:16

PreviouslyOnLost
No one said that all hippy types are peace loving, wouldn't hurt a fly types. The point I was making, is that they were not planning to bomb London or shoot down planes. The targeted organisations were not violent terrorist cells.

MildlyNarkyPuffin · 20/01/2012 23:16

A lot of vile misogynistic bollocks on this thread. Especially from Troisgarcons.

These policemen started relationships with women for the purposes of establishing their cover stories. Relationships that went on for years. They had children with the women. Then they disappeared.

The people who have commented on the women 'spread(ing) their legs' and the men being forced to have sex with people they'd never choose to should be ashamed of themselves.

These women are not terrorists. Most of them will never have broken the law.

animula · 20/01/2012 23:19

I'm not diagreeing with you, MmeLindor. I was being slightly sarcastic. I find it incredibly troubling that legal organisations were infiltrated and the criteria under which they were chosen was clearly that they were left-wing and anti-capitalist (by long-term implication, rather than that being their intentional object).

Ironic, really, considering how we've been so utterly screwed by capitalism. Most recently the "downturn" (which seems to be playing out as a super-efficient means for transferring wealth from everyone else to the top 1%, o whatever), but long-term, really.

Or not ironic at all ...