to loathe the smuggery that goes with any G&T post

[FunnysInTheGarden]

' oh my dc is miles and miles ahead of her peers, but I really want her to keep it real and mix with the thick folk just so that she understands that we are all different. Obv she'll move to private for her GCSE's'

FFS, when I was young there was no G&T and we all got on with it. I would have been a G&T type, but so glad there wasn't the distinction then. Tis shite

When I was young a very long time ago in the 60's/70's it probably meant the top three or four in the class who everyone knew would pass their 11 plus and go to grammar school, the three or four below them were borderline but usually a couple of them made it.

Really clever meant the top three or four in the class at grammar school, probably about a dozen in the whole year and exceptional was applied to the two or three who got to Oxbridge or into medicine from the local grammar school.

How times have changed.

DP is a HT & he says the label is really bad. as other posters have said:

1. its only the the top 10% in a class, which can vary widely
2. top 10% is not that clever, not gifted. the G&T name was designed to include sports and arts as well as academic
3. children all develop at their own rate & in their own way so advanced in one area at one point in time means little.

its really to stop teachers forgetting about the top end of their class. & thats all.

he did comment that maybe some G&T parents only felt comfortable raising a concern about their child when they (rightly or wrongly) put it in the context of G&T & this was what could come over as smug.

Good post TheRealTillyMinto - my concerns exactly but better expressed!

Also that G and group are going to include those who are simply hothoused. Would be good to try and identify those who are very bright but lacking a certain sort of 'home advantage'. I think G and T is a misleading as well as yukky term.

I think it depends enormously on the parents and the climate in the school whether the g & t label leads to any over-inflated ideas of child's intelligence

don't remember it having that effect in dd's junior school: you could join a lunchtime club if you wanted to but not all g & t- labelled children bothered, it certainly wasn't a big topic of conversation in the playground

what mattered was being in top set and doing well in tests

and once they got to secondary the bright children were talking about their chances at GCSEs and dream careers and what colleges they want to go to, and starting up their own bands or auditioning for the National Youth Theatre or whatever was suggested by their particular talents: it's a lot more focused on the outside world; a label issued by the school wasn't going to have a massive effect on how they see themselves; they knew they were going to be competing against outsiders in the long run

never met a parent who deduced their child was "special" simply on the strength of a g & t label.

I don't see how it's bad. DD doesn't know she has the label - just that she has been moved up to reception because they listen to reading and nursery don't. I'm also not of the opinion that the fact she is a few years ahead with her reading means that she is some kind of genius or any more special than anyone else or that she always will be ahead.
I don't think people are comparing it to sn in that it is anything like the same struggle (I have no problems as of yet with dd) but just that it is good sometimes for kids to be given stuff to do at their level. I know dd's school also splits the rest of the kids into groups to target work at different levels for them too. I don't see how that's a bad thing. I know that if dd is given something too hard to do she gets demotivated and when she's doing stuff she finds easy she takes over and no-one else gets a look in so not good for her or others.

Gifted means exceptionally talented .Top 10% in a school is not gifted and talented.It is slightly ahead of the norm that's all and in another school might well be plumb average .
A truly gifted child is a rare thing.I went to a school with a gifted boy.He was born into a very non-academic background .At about 7 he would be sitting in the corner of teh playground calculating Pi to 100s of places.We thought of him as seriously weird, I am guessuing nowadays we would know he was on the autistic spectrum , but i know he has never had a girlfriend and is too 'unconventional' to be employable

I just dream about Gin and Tonics when I see a G&T thread.

I agree the label can do more harm than good sometimes. My DSS was G&T all through school (both primary and secondary, in very deprived area) and it basically meant him being praised and told he would get brilliant results. Every year he would get predicted As, even when in mocks he was failing. It was a total shambles.

Obviously a lot was down to the particular schools, and it certainly would've been different had DH won custody when DSS was tiny as his mother has never taken any interest in any of their DCs' education... But still, the G&T label was a BIG reason for DSS not to learn to actually work. He was a typical coaster and so did quite badly in GCSEs, much worse in A levels. Now waiting to go to uni in Sept because he's been told by his teachers he will do brilliantly and he still hasn't grasped the concept that he actually needs to study.

I OTOH was the product of extremely smug parents. Naturally intelligent, and taught to work hard at academic subjects, but brought up to believe that was all that mattered. I've only recently started to realise it isn't the case (partially thanks to MN) and thank goodness I have before my DCs are damaged like I was. I frequently kick myself for not seeing it sooner, why did I not realise? My oh so intelligent parents have jack shit to show for it, in a run down house, a terrible marriage and no money.

I'm not sure they would've loved me so much if I hadn't lived up to their staggeringly high expectations. I am already worrying about their low opinion of my 4.7yo because she isn't reading fluently yet. :(

Sorry all that has little to do with the thread but it was quite cathartic.

dandelionss - Gifted means exceptionally talented

Where did you get that definition?

From what I have read, gifted refers to academic ability and talented to sports/music etc.

Your definition of "a truly gifted child" as being genius is outdated.

The current G&T is a way of catering to very able children just as remedial teaching is offered to lesser able children. And in many respects this has been done for years though not with the label.

imaginethat I strongly disagree that the meaning of the word gifted has changed. It has merely been incorrectly applied to a group of children.

I will remain a dinosaur who expects a gifted person to be blessed with a rare seen talent and refuse to apply this label to simply the "top 10%". What a pathetic message to embrace.

Agree AP

And from what I keep hearing, a true 'gift' can be more of a curse.

Agree with Alpine and co - the word 'gifted' is simply wrong when applied to top 10% of any year group. To me 'gifted' means out of the ordinary/ cleverest of the clever. Top 10% mostly will not fit this definition and the label is potentially very misleading and yes- might lead to misplaced smuggery.