The old chestnet about holidays in term time because they are cheaper.

[troisgarcons]

School Y4/5/6 meeting this evening about changes in Ofsted and the way information will be reported to parents (and parental responsibility in supporting educational standards and methods).

To summarise, every child will have an individual "flightpath" according to ability but some things are governemnt measures and therefore immovable.

One of which was attendance. So once we'd got past the hysterical parent ranting about her particular case of chicken pox which dipped her child below the target threshold of 95% and illness not being a childs fault and the heckler spouting disability discrimination sigh we had She-who-wants-holiday-in-term-time spouting at every opportunity.

It got to the point where I was having fantsies about ripping her tongue out and after and hour of this - the Head made it clear there are 365 days in a year, of which 190 are school days , therefore there are a rather large amount of days not at school to have "family time". And still the parent kept on and on and on and on .....after an hour of her chirping in at every opportunity I pointed out that if she wished to remove her child for one or two weeks that was her prerogative but her selfishness impinged on my child learning as when her child returned lessons would have to be summarised.

I asked how she would feel if her childs teachers were feckless enough to book holiday in term time and leave her child without continuity of education.

She said "well, you just sound like a teacher and thats your career choice so I expect you to be in school when I want you there!!!"

So I played devils advocat and said "are you saying my right to family life is lesser then yours?"

To whit she said "you signed up for it"

So for all of you (including me) who do look @ school statistics - just remember - that with the best will in the world, there are mardy parents who just do not co-opt into the educations system and will probably have monumental hissy fits when little Jaydeen-Beckham and Beyonce-Chardonay'ah dont achieve anything much at the end of their school career and leave with a monumental sense of entitlement that the entire world owes them a living.

and breath

AIBU to get that off my chest?

Whilst I can see why the woman in the meeting wound you up OP, your hysteria over term time holidays is pretty annoying too.

At our school we are 'allowed' 10 days off per academic year and just have to fill out a form. My eldest is in Yr2 and we are using some of those days this academic year. I would like to say that I have grand plans to march my kids round the battlefields of Normandy or take them to the Louvre but we are going camping in France and will probably spend most of the time in the pool and on the beach.

We're going over half term in June so I think we're missing 4 or 5 days of school. I don't think I need to panic about catching up really...both kids are in infants school so their noses are hardly pressed to the grindstone at school. And I DO think it would be different to take a child out at Secondary School - the type of work a Primary school child does is easily replicated at home i.e. reading, writing, fairly basic maths and science are all things many of us do over a weekend, sometimes without even realising it. The same just can't be said of Secondary.

I don't take my children out of school as I have always worked in school so tied to holidays but in primary I don't see it is that much of a big deal. It is to with attendance figures and funding.

I don't think they fall behind especially in the Summer.

The head at DC's primary school used to make parents feel bad even if it was for half a day.

I remember going to Spain when I was six in term time. In those days you were officially allowed 10 days I think.

While I kind of agree, Ling, in reception, for example, each week might be given over to a different blend of letters. If your child misses that blend, then yes, it is possible to catch up, but you would need to know. Otherwise, they will have missed something fairly important and someone at school needs to take time to show them. So it's definitely not insurmountable, and you don't need to panic, but you may need to ask what they will be doing so you can go over it with them.

Do tell me, Troisgarcons, about the parent 'spouting the DDA, sigh'...

babybythesea i see what you are saying but maybe the holiday is not for the child, not for education at all, but just because that's where the parents (who work hard all year round) like to go. That they put the kids in the clubs because they want some time alone.

I think, unlike many people here, that that is also fine. I do not think your entire life should be doing what is only good for your children. 2 weeks on the costa eating chips and doing karaoke (while not my cup of tea) is okay.

Yes sandcastle making is not as valuable as school, but do we have to do the absolute best all the time? Can it not just be fun/tolerable for the child as a compromise for the parents to do what they want occasionally?

I agree spuddybean

Well, for me, Spuddy, no it's not ok!
I kind of think that if you make the committment to have children, then while they don't have to come first all the time (like never leaving them with a babysitter to go out for a meal because you don't trust anyone to look after them), there are times they do have to come first. Your own holiday in the sun taking priority over their education is one of the times I think you do have to put them first, and reorganise your priorities.
I don't see it as your entire life being given over to them, but that there are certain key decisions where their needs need to come first.

This is not to say that a holiday abroad in school time cannot be educational -I think it can be - but you have to put effort in. If you're not prepared to put the effort in, then I don't think you should be going, and let them stay at school where there is someone who will put effort into their education.

all this focus on attendance levels was originally to target truancy- those children who were persistently absent from school.Whose parents were most often disenfranchised and were not interested in making sure their offspring had a good education.
however it was quickly realised that it's much easier to improve your stats by targetting conscientious parents who take a week's holiday in term time.sadly the British mentality is a lot of the time to meekly conform, rather than stand back and assess whether YOU think their education will be irrevocably damaged by missing 5 days.

Babybythesea, maybe the best thing to do then would be to leave them with a babysitter for two weeks while the parents can enjoy some fun in the sun. :o

Also anyone who knows anything a bout child development would be able to tell you than a change of environment in itself is educational in the broadest sense of the word.But that's not really the point.the point is for the whole family relax, be refreshed, have fun, create memories and generally enjoy being together.childhood passes in a flash and you can never get that time back again

but baby what if they do come first most of the year. Their education is not made or broken on 2 wks a year in June.

i actually have an old fashioned view that adult needs come first. Children should fit into the family rather than the family be constructed around them. parents work, they are the ones which need the holiday, not children - their whole lives are a bit of a holiday really.

Not everything has to be developing them, can't they just be left to their own devices to play on a beach?

spuddy good post, you talk a lot of sense. Its all about family time -yes taht includes spending time with your chidlren but if people want to enjoy some alone time as a couple on holiday thats ok to.

Luckily this year we are going in the beginning of July which is holiday time for our schools here in Scotland and are driving - flight supplements from Scotland in our school holidays can be horrendous and definately a reason why parents take their children out. We have not been on a package holiday for years now as we prefer driving to France and hiring our own cottage but I have taken my (primary age) boys out in Septmeber because its cheaper then. The reason I wouldnt do it with secondary school children is because of exam studies and preparation.

duckdodgers I have nickname envy.

Does anyone saying that time off in secondary school is less important/more easily caught up on than time off in primary have any DCs doing controlled assessments for GCSEs?

I took the DCs out of primary school for cheap foreign holidays occasionally. One of my regrets is that I didn't do it more. Frankly I can't believe that a couple of weeks a year makes a ha'porth of difference at primary school.

Maybe we should change schools so that they operate 52 weeks a year from eg 9 to 5. It would help working parents, and it would remove the pressure on prices for August. Teachers could take their 5 weeks holiday when they chose, and schools would have to suck it up and employ decent supply teachers, or cover it from within the staff room.

The thing that always gets me about conversations with people at school on this subject, is the frantic desire to have their decisions validated by the head saying that the absence is "authorised".

Surely everyone knows that it's better not to take your kids out of school, and that headteachers are not really allowed to authorise it, but if you decide for whatever reason to do it anyway, WTF does it matter whether the little stamp from the school says "authorised" or "unauthorised"?? I'm genuinely confused about this - it's as if people somehow think that by getting that letter which says "authorised", their kids won't miss out on anything at school?

And yes, I have on rare occasions taken my DDs out of school, and would do so again if I thought my reasons were good enough.

It's all to do with stats and Ofsted. DC3's primary school is "outstanding" in every area apart from attendance, because of families taking children out of school in term-time. The head obviously wants the school to be "outstanding" in every area, so this is where he gets his knickers in a twist.

That's what I mean. I am not against taking kids out of school in terms time within reason. I think that family time is very important. But don't expect the school to be endorsing it or doing extra to make up is all.

I went to disneyworld Florida when I was in year 3 in may best holiday ever.

I would do it with mine if I had permission but I wouldn't piss and moan if school said no. Was the only term time holiday I had. I wouldn't do it in secondary school

Baby, thankfully we are in Wales and they go to a Welsh school. Which means it's foundation phase til the age of 7, and a language that needs very little of that scary blending/phenome stuff that I keep reading about on the Primary Education board. They learn the alphabet and some key words then they start reading. DS is reading already while his peers are still on the alphabet so I honestly don't think he's going to suddenly be behind after a few days off.

I do think there's a time and place where its less appropriate to remove a child from school. My eldest in in Yr 3, much as I detest SATS, we didn't take him out of school that week, if he's got a big production coming up or something important we do try and avoid these times.

Likewise we'll be the same when our children hit high school.

There are always parents who simply don't give a fluff, but they're not always the same people who remove their children from school for a holiday.

Should add that in my experience, my children have never suffered set backs because of missing 2 weeks of school. Not once. Because I make sure they don't.

ThisIsANickname really?

It was my DS2s idea as I sat in front of the computer to register with no decent name in my brain

Does anyone saying that time off in secondary school is less important/more easily caught up on than time off in primary have any DCs doing controlled assessments for GCSEs?

I said it. I don't. I am a secondary school teacher, though. Does that help?

(For the record, I would not encourage anyone to take time off in the immediate run up to GCSEs)

The immediate run up to GCSEs is now the whole of Years 10 and 11, with a bit of Year 9 thrown in.

Thisisanickname - if I can find someone prepared to have my dd for two whole weeks, then hooray - I'm off!!!

I think, Spuddy, we'll disagree however much we discuss it! Good to see different points of view though. I think family time is critical. And I think holidays are valuable. And I think kids being left to their own devices is a key skill for them. I don't think every holiday should be one educational experience after another.

But I think it is important to recognise that a holiday is a disruption to their education - even if they are in reception they will have missed some of the phonics/blends and someone will have to go over it with them,so they will then miss out on the next thing, or miss out on playing with their friends in order for this to happen. Do I, personally, think that me wanting to lie on a beach is good enough reason to do that? Nope. Sorry. I work hard, and there are times when I would love a holiday, but I also don't want my dd to think that me lying on a beach is more important than her schooling. How could I then tell her, later on, that she needs to work hard at school because it's important, and that she can go out to play after her homework is done?

But, I do think that you can learn from going away. Therefore, if I remove her from school, yes, let her play, build sandcastles etc, but lets also do something useful with some of the other days - show her new things, let her experience new food, let her try to learn some new words and talk to new people. Be active in trying to see that she gets something more out of it. And if I don't get any couple time on holiday - well, so be it. We are far more than a couple - we are a family. I can find other ways to be a couple at home and strengthen that relationship, my daughter's school time is not the time to be doing that (unless she's there and we've got the house to ourselves!!).