The old chestnet about holidays in term time because they are cheaper.

[troisgarcons]

School Y4/5/6 meeting this evening about changes in Ofsted and the way information will be reported to parents (and parental responsibility in supporting educational standards and methods).

To summarise, every child will have an individual "flightpath" according to ability but some things are governemnt measures and therefore immovable.

One of which was attendance. So once we'd got past the hysterical parent ranting about her particular case of chicken pox which dipped her child below the target threshold of 95% and illness not being a childs fault and the heckler spouting disability discrimination sigh we had She-who-wants-holiday-in-term-time spouting at every opportunity.

It got to the point where I was having fantsies about ripping her tongue out and after and hour of this - the Head made it clear there are 365 days in a year, of which 190 are school days , therefore there are a rather large amount of days not at school to have "family time". And still the parent kept on and on and on and on .....after an hour of her chirping in at every opportunity I pointed out that if she wished to remove her child for one or two weeks that was her prerogative but her selfishness impinged on my child learning as when her child returned lessons would have to be summarised.

I asked how she would feel if her childs teachers were feckless enough to book holiday in term time and leave her child without continuity of education.

She said "well, you just sound like a teacher and thats your career choice so I expect you to be in school when I want you there!!!"

So I played devils advocat and said "are you saying my right to family life is lesser then yours?"

To whit she said "you signed up for it"

So for all of you (including me) who do look @ school statistics - just remember - that with the best will in the world, there are mardy parents who just do not co-opt into the educations system and will probably have monumental hissy fits when little Jaydeen-Beckham and Beyonce-Chardonay'ah dont achieve anything much at the end of their school career and leave with a monumental sense of entitlement that the entire world owes them a living.

and breath

AIBU to get that off my chest?

i dont know if it will be authorised yet, but we have booked the holiday so they will be 'ill' if its not authorised!

I would imagin if you put in an application and it's declined and you decide to go anyway, the school will know and will require certificates for all your children; if you cant provide those the EWO will be notified. They are fining £100 per child in court - and that comes with a criminal record too.

YABU. IMO children can learn a lot more in 5 days on holiday than they can sitting at a desk. It is not harmful to take children out if school for a week, and it makes no difference to the other children in the class if they're there or not. Teachers are happy to strike - it's not important for children to be in school when teacher's pensions are under threat.

School is not more important than home. Parents and families teach children too, and a week away is a great forum for this. If going in term time means a child and fraught parents get a break, then the value of that is immeasurable. Bloody school targets are damaging and pointless in this instance. One week off per year will not harm a child's education, and two or three probably wouldn't either.

This whole fuss is ridiculous IMO.

And quite apart from anything else, if I thought my request for a week away would be refused, I'd just ring the dc's in sick anyway.

Thinking about this has made me really ranty

Philmassive

on several occasions now I have had parents complain that their DC are behind with work/have lower marks than they should have.

These are parents that took their children out of school for holidays, I don't have time to recap the lessons that they miss, it is (IMO) for the parents and the pupils to sort out the work they have missed and catch up.

If you want to go but don't moan at me when you get back.

It was the womans attitude that pissed me off (still frothing this morning!).

We are all adult enough to have worked out by now, generally if you ask for something pleasantly you will generally get it, but if you demand it, it will generally be declined.

It's an over used phrase, but she had that whole "world owes me a living" mentality - she kept dragging the same point up, over and over despite the topic having been moved on.

I can also imagin I will be the topic of convo this morning ie 'the snotty rude cow"

Unfortunately, to enable us to have family holidays, some years I have to take my children out of school. This year my dh has a week in Feb and a week in August and a week in November, nicely spread out but the week in August is the one week of the year I can never take off!

Fortunately, our school authorises time off for a few reasons, parental holiday assignments being one of them, but I hate doing it and mostly take the children.away on my own :(

trois and what note would that be? Dr's are NOT to do notes for children it has been agreed with department of education so any school requesting them is just plain wrong. Also notes are for employed staff under a certain age! Notes are not even meant to be provided for exams boards etc schools are meant to provide them. When voting days , training days strike days and misc shut days are outside term time I will believe the teaching establishment and ofsted is really interested. That said I do think teachers are and also do a good job I would not want to do. Just the powers that be are nuts

Shrug, I don't have hissy fits, I just do what I think is best for my children.

I aim for the holidays, but if I deem it necessary for them to miss school for something better, then they will.

DS1 will miss 4 days in total either side of the Easter holidays this year, we are off on a holiday to the States for 4 weeks. I will let the school know, but I won't be asking permission.

Have yet to have a problem.

The woman's attitude was disgraceful and I will add that we have never taken our children out of school for holidays and would never dream of doing so. We are beyond primary and in secondary now although one wee factor that focuses the mind is that the combined school fees are about £2,700 per calendar month and put in those terms you don't skip what you actually know and actually feel to be something very valuable and very expensive to provide. Especially when there are approximately 14 weeks when you can otherwise book holiday - sometimes less when the dc have different holidays !

However, at their state primary I was known to comment that I found it a little bit unreasonable that the school would not authorise a holiday from about the second week to middle of July when the children were watching videos, playing in the garden, having picnics, taking in board games, were exhausted and there was very very little if any learning happening. I do think it is important that if schools refuse to authorise leave at the end of term time they have to make sure they are providing something valuable at those times. Likewise it was a bit embarassing when the dc of the governors all jetted off the week before Xmas or the week before Easter leaving the rest of us open mouthed with our letters about not asking for holiday in termtime because it wouldn't be granted.

Yanbu op. By all means take your kids out, but expect to have it marked against their attendance and to catch them up in your own time without teacher/school input.

I genuinely don't object to the principle of hols in school terms (though not sure what a week eating chips on the Costa del Sol is going to teach most children) but do so accepting the consequences.

I am an Education Welfare Officer and yes, I have prosecuted many parents for non school attendance. However, for my own reasons, I have also taken my children out of school on term time holidays.

In most authorities, schools may authorise up to ten days for per academic year for holidays. Cases should be judges on an individual basis.

I am concerned by cases where a child has erratic/poor school attendance/punctuality for no valid reason.

If a child has excellent attendance and the parents wish to take them on holiday during school time, I couldn't give a fig. (As long as its not at an inappropriate time, eg during SATS, GCSE's etc)

When penalty notices are issued, these may be £30, £50 or £100 per child and it can still be cheaper to pay the fine then to pay for the extortionate costs during the holidays.

Only when a person is prosecuted does it become a criminal offence and the parents gain a criminal record. Prosecution is always a last resort.

In all my years I have never known a parent prosecuted just for booking a term time holiday.

God, how did we survive before the schools started throwing attendance letters at us? It's amazing really that any of us over the age of 30 managed to get any education at all considering the slapdash way we were brought up. Fancy our parents having the deciding vote on what was best for us...

Trois, i'd have done the same in a meeting like that.

Sadly, some people seem to think that they are entitled to a holiday and that they can choose to break the rules and take it when they like. As the head quite rightly states there are hundreds of days not in school to spend time together as a family - a holiday in term time is not needed neither though is an actual holiday.

People take school for granted and dont realise how lucky our children are to have free education.

Well, my parents would never have taken us out of school, even medical appointments were long considered. But then they had the same 'issue' as Married so perhaps the amount they paid focussed the mind a little.

Chocciemum, I'm glad you've cleared that up. I regard my children's education very highly and also have a job where if you have a criminal record your career is over, but the very same job also means that holidays during term time will be the way to go if I wish to actually go on a family holiday. Ironic, eh? I do think that in hysterically writing that you could get a criminal record for taking your child on holiday the OP has reached the same, if not greater, level of rantiness as the woman she complains about.

I don't think anyone who takes their children out of school has the right to demand extra time from the school staff to make up for lost time, and attendance the rest of the time is essential. (When I was at school, in all the years I went I only recall having time off sick for chickenpox. Never for a cold or anything else.)

It is up to the responsible parent to ensure that time taken out from school is made up either by catching up with the curriculum in their own time or to provide enough alternative education while away.

I do take my children out of school in term time, but we live overseas and they attend an international school. DS in year 7 missed one week in December to go to New Zealand, one day last week to help me with charity work in rural China and will miss two days in February to see my mum. We are meeting here in Hong Kong when she flies back from Canberra.
I expect my son to catch up in his own time with my support - it is my responisibilty to help him as it is my decision for him to miss school - no need for any hissy fits.
When we lived in Austria, I think the kids could take 5 days per year for term time holiday with no penalty.
Educating my child is my responsibility - I choose to delegate some of that responsibility to the school, but ultimately I will make the final decision as to what is best for my child based on preformance at school, normal attendance and reason for the absence.

Backinthebox - agree with you 100%

I've taken my DC out of school before now, and I am doing it again this year. If we don't go in the last week of the school year we won't get a holiday, again. We have decided to take them out in the week where there are trips, resdentials and fun days so they won't be missing out on any education as such.

The fact that my DC have had term time holidays has not had an impact on their education, DS1 got all As and As at GCSE, and DS2 has just got As in his Maths modules. I don't expect the teachers to spend time helping them to catch up, I expect my DC to find out what they have missed and copy it up from their friends and spend time reading about it.

Chocciemum THANK YOU. I have been worrying about this.
Have one in yr 8 and two in Primary and DH and I are victims of the Olympics/ No leave thing this year. We could only get one week together and it means missing 3 days of school at the end of term.
Sod it, we are working back to back opposite shifts all the summer while they have to go to kids club as we have no help. We are going on a culture free beach holiday!

Have never done it before and never will again. Attendance is otherwise perfect although the schools have below average attendance rates generally. DD's mates take days off for period pains & tiredness.

I absolutely see why schools have to be tough about this but hope their attendance monitor is as sensible as you.

i know i'm going to get flamed for this but i don't just think the holidays are there for spending time with your children. If you (both) work full time they are also your holiday too. I do not agree with this child centric view that everything in life is about them.

Perhaps they do have to 'compromise' some aspects of their education for 1 or 2 weeks per year so everyone in the family can enjoy their holiday.

My parents took me out of school for the last 2 wks of term every year (including secondary school) and my education did not suffer. In fact i learned many other things while traveling, which enriched my life as much as class room based teaching.

My parents both worked long hours and they did not want a camping holiday in wales - it just wasn't their thing. So should they have sacrificed their eagerly anticipated 2 wks a year in the sun for 16 years, for the sake of me missing the end of term play?

I have also been a teacher and it didn't bother me then either - parents or kids either put the effort in to catch, up or they don't, it is up to them. I think people need to make decision for themselves and weigh up the costs versus benefits.

The school i worked in also had a huge traveler community who dipped in and out of the system. It wouldn't then be fair to tell other parents they couldn't have taken their children on hol for a week.

nice to see some actual facts about attendance given by choccie mum rather than the hysterical frothing by the OP.

'I asked how she would feel if her childs teachers were feckless enough to book holiday in term time and leave her child without continuity of education.'
what a ridiculous argument

I wouldn't flame you for that Spuddy. Sounds very sensible to me.

Just as teachers cannot take time off in term time, there are those of us that work in the leisure industry and cannot take time off in the school holidays - should we just never have a holiday?

Thanks chocciemum that is how I understand it too.

I think with most things this comes down to common sense. I took my boys out of school term time a couple of times but never ever if they had any exams or anything really important coming up, on the years we couldn't afford a holiday they had 100% attendance and the most I ever took them out was for 5 days.

They never would have had a foreign holiday if we couldn't of taken them out of school in term time as we wouldn't have been able to afford it.