to wonder about having kids after all?

[Anna1976]

I've always said no to the idea of kids. Too hard, too confronting (I had a miserable and crappy upbringing), I have no idea how to do emotional relationships (I have AS and Dp does to some extent too), i can serve the world better by doing well in my career (scientist and medic), kids would mean cutting back on the career to a point that i wonder if I could ever really have a job again (a job that I want, which indicates my level of selfish self-definition by career)...

I'm 35. DP and I agree that marriage comes before kids, and we are not married.

I'm happy with everything. I've just got a promotion at work.

But the bloody biological clock seems to have started, looking at all the schoolfriends' photos of happy kids in the summer holidays, uni friends' photos of Christmas, etc.

Am I mad?
What do I do now?

I'm also an academic (but in the humanities, so a different proposition), but I agree that, in exchange for fairly rubbish pay and work that never really gets done, dedpartments can be, in my experience, very flexible. I'm only about to go on maternity leave with my first pregnancy (advanced age, also had second thoughts on remaining childless), but looking at colleagues with small children is encouraging, in that it can be a flexible, child-friendly job, at least in my field and current dept.

Anna, I think you might actually want children, you are just worried that you wont be able to bring them up right, and that you might not be able to do the things you like with them. Children fit in with your life, they are very adaptable. If they are taken to museums, churches, galleries, mountains from an early age, this becomes the norm for them! Of course you cant take a new born on a long trek. But you start with small trips. Parks, beaches. You can take them in special backpacks for walking, then they can toddle a little themselves, and sit in the back pack when they are tired. Eventually, they build up stamina and love for the outdoors and galleries, etc. and you just get on with it.

The biggest sacrifices might be work related. But even that is temporary. There are so many different options for childcare. Au pairs that live in and help in the mornings who can take the child to nursery and pick them up. Nannies, Childminders, nurseries. Most people work, and even if they dont have much help from family, they still find solutions.

One thing though, if you DO decide to go ahead, it is so worth going to ante natal classes (the NCT ones are great), because you learn a lot, you will discover where to find information (but you are on a roll as you found mumsnet already!! ), and you meet other expectant mums in your local area, which will be great for meeting up with to go for coffee and trips to the park and playground, etc. And just to vent about sleepless nights and runny nappies . And you might meet mums like yourself with a similar background and with similar issues relating to work and childcare and can pool resources.

Quintessentially makes a great point. As another example -- when I was on maternity leave, I never went to baby groups, instead I would roam around London, going to parks and museums, meeting up with friends. I also spent a lot of days in my pajamas doing not much at all (sleep deprivation!) I was pleased to find babies can be very portable and pliable at that age so I was really able to do things I wanted to do and bring DS along for the ride. So I very much agree with the idea of living your life and fitting your DC into it.

I'm not working today so I'm going to take DS to our hipster art gallery, then some hot chocolate in the cafe and a nice long walk home.

Kids limit what you can do but not as much as you might think.

Hey RP :)

That's a really good (if a bit off the wall!) idea about your two week experiment. I think over the coming months I'm really going to bear that in mind, along with considering what I'm doing at any given time and thinking 'how would DCs work with this scenario'. I think doing that will really give me confidence in broaching the topic with DP (still fraidycatting!)

QS & DBs posts give a refreshing insight into how life with DCs can be without painting a false rosy picture nor purveying doom.

Your mother's attitude to children and her opinion of you will be a major issue in all this. It's almost the ultimate sin to reject your child in this way - be very aware and ensure that you are dealing with this, but don't get hung up about it and don't let it stop you having children.

If you're into walking - youth hostels are perfect for this with children. And QS is right - babies are extremely portable and you can go wherever you like with them. Baby groups are essentially for mothers anyway, for us to share ideas and get out of the house.

I am guessing the crap upbringing bothers you more than all the other stuff OP. You don't want to give your kids with the same kind of childhood that you had, and you are worried you will not be able to control this.
To some extent I think it is hard to be a different parent than your parents were.
I find myself saying and doing things sometimes that I hate, that remind me of things i hated about my own childhood, and it takes a very concious effort to be different.
However, a dodgy childhood doesnt neccessarily make a bad mother, and actually, the more concious you are about your actions, probably, the better.

Anna - I'm also an academic who didn't want children. I then thought, let's just see what happens - but I still wasn't sure even when I was almost due...

Now have 20 month old and, while it's hard, I feel so lucky to have this little happy lovely little person in our life.
Incidentally, junior is just so important to me that what I thought I'd do, pre kids, is very different to what I've actually done. E.g. I assumed I'd put DC into nursery at 4 months since ultra passionate about amazing career (in fact, gave up the day job to go freelance instead), thought breastfeeding a bit ik (in fact still breastfeeding) and on it goes.

Someone said 'oh you'll feel different (about work) when the baby's here' and I just thought they were talking out of their hat (I also thought SAHM were a bit lazy, hur hur) - so who knows how you'll feel after junior is here. In truth, you just can't know, and that's the main risk you take.
BUT since you don't want to repeat the hardships of your childhood, I think you're in a much better position to be a loving and good mum than those who go into it without any much thought.

Now, as a fellow researcher, you need to do more solid research ;).
Perhaps read these three books:
Gina Ford's Contented Little Baby
Oliver James 'How not to Fuck them up' (to give idea about child/work balance)
Deborah Jackson 'Letting go while letting grow' (possibly the opp of GF)

I probably read about 200 books when pregnant. (All of the above authors have their haters on here, btw, but that's partly because they have their own very particular views - e.g. I don't much like GF but it'll give you a good - and indeed fairly hideous - idea of what everyday life can be like with a small baby.)

good luck whichever path you choose!

No - don't read Gina Ford OR Oliver James!

Read anything by Kate Figes and 'What to Expect when you're Expecting'.

Also 'The Emotionally Abusive Relationship' by Beverly Engel to deal with your mother's issues.

anna, one the one hand when you have a child you meet the person you will love the most in the world, ever. on the other hand, as some with said a child is lke having a tatoo on your face! ie you dont rush into the decision

do you have to decide today, this week? read answers, think, and the right way will present itself I suspect

and DONT read Gina, sorry zumm but thats the worse book!!!!

You mention AS in both you and your husband. If you did have a child, then in theory, there would be a higher risk of that child being on the autistic spectrum. Have you thought about Special Needs and how you'd cope?

I think the egg freezing idea mentioned above sounds good. Also, fostering, adoption as possibilities?

I think it is the people who say they didn't want children who are the best parents. Maybe it is because they don't have romantic visions about what it is going to be like or maybe it is because these people really love life and pass that on to their children.

I think the dog / child comparison is entirely fair - if you can't handle a dog then you are definitely too flaky for a child. Also, I find, children (like dogs) need a walk twice a day; discipline and affection (oh I forgot food). They are very similar.

I am the same age as you and expecting my first child...I count myself lucky in that I always knew I wanted children, (would have had one sooner if the circumstances had allowed) but felt like a desperate dash to the wire once I'd met the person I knew I wanted to have children with (and who wanted to have children with me!).

Fortunately we conceived very fast but I was terrified I wouldn't be able to past 35...so my first point would be, you're doing the right thing thinking seriously about this now, even if you ultimately decide not to go for it.

I wouldn't delay the thinking and talking over with your partner any longer than you need to...I had a drunken and rather desperate conversation with my DP last summer after we sat next to two women in a restaurant talking very loudly about their long term efforts to conceive (I said to him tearfully afterwards 'what if that's me talking in six months?'...about 6 weeks later I was pregnant!)

Secondly, if you do have nieces and nephews but feel you don't get much of a chance to bond with them, perhaps now's the time to get a bit closer to them? See if you can spend time with them individually, e.g. going to a museum or gallery, or helping them with homework (depends on their age of course - if they are still young, you may well get the chance to get closer to them as you get older, as you are a reliable and trusted Grown Up who isn't Mum or Dad).

Although I am so excited about my own child being born, I feel a bit jealous and protective about my relationship with my nephews, aware that the new baby will take me away from them...the extent to which I've felt that has been surprising to me...so I would say, make the most of the children you already have in your life, as they will certainly appreciate you more and more as they grow up.

FreckledLeopard: that's a point that keeps me awake at night...

Thanks for more good advice from all sides

Going away this weekend to have the discussions...

Forgive me if I am wrong but it sounds like you haven't wanted children but now you are suddenly aware that you are getting to that point you have to decide once and for all and that if you continue with your current feelings you may be missing out on something and you'll regret it.

Unfortunately no-one can tell you whether you will or won't but I can tell you that as much as I love my children, there are many days when I wish it was still just my husband and I and in hindsight I think we would have been just as happy if not happier just the two of us. In the day time, we struggle to have a conversation without being interrupted and at night we're then too tired or forget what we wanted to talk about :). We both have careers but you do have to make sacrifices - shorter hours, taking time off for sickness etc etc.

I hope that doesn't sound overly negative, just wanted to add another perspective.