to wonder about having kids after all?

[Anna1976]

I've always said no to the idea of kids. Too hard, too confronting (I had a miserable and crappy upbringing), I have no idea how to do emotional relationships (I have AS and Dp does to some extent too), i can serve the world better by doing well in my career (scientist and medic), kids would mean cutting back on the career to a point that i wonder if I could ever really have a job again (a job that I want, which indicates my level of selfish self-definition by career)...

I'm 35. DP and I agree that marriage comes before kids, and we are not married.

I'm happy with everything. I've just got a promotion at work.

But the bloody biological clock seems to have started, looking at all the schoolfriends' photos of happy kids in the summer holidays, uni friends' photos of Christmas, etc.

Am I mad?
What do I do now?

I was 40, husband was 43, we'd been married 16 years and never wanted children.

Suddenly we realised we did, and had been in denial. We'd always said we'd adopt, and luckily we lived in a country where that was quite easy.

So we did it. From day 2 (day 1 we were in shock!) it was no issue. Whatever we do, we just have to find a way to do it with him too.

He was 5 last week, and is the light of our lives.

Yes, there are sacrifices, but we got to a point where it was worth in.

And academia is quite a good career to have with kids. I've worked (in professional training) throughout, and a good friend of mine had 4 kids and did her PhD while working full time as a university lecturer. To some extent you can choose your teaching commitment.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

Not much to add, but have just been told by a psychologist that people on the spectrum make the best parents.

No idea why, maybe because we are very logical and don't become too emotionally involved.

Agree with jenny, in that you're very aware of how your parents didn't do a very good job of showing you that they loved you so in having a child you will work hard at not repeating their mistakes.

Also, I agree with others who have said you shouldn't rule out having a child because you will be limited in what you do. Babies and toddlers appear to limit the activities you did pre-children but only because they are very demanding of your time so everything takes a lot longer to do but the challenges are not insurmountable. Also the baby years are very short, the physical reliance upon you becomes less and you can do more.

Finally, even if it does impact on your career you can't possibly know how you will feel about that pre-children.

You can have a fulfilling career and have children - they're not mutually exclusive. I have 2 dc, 2 and 6 yo. I've always worked full time and for 3 and half years I was commutting for over 3 hours a day! My children are happy and balanced and although I wish I had more time with them, specially with dd because of all the school-related stuff, I think we're doing ok. Oh, and we have no family nearby. My mother sometimes flies in for half term holidays, but she's definitely not on stand-by.

You have a great thing going for you - you're both scientist so I'd assume you have loads of flexibility, which is really important.

And I disagree with the advice of spending time with other children or imagining doing things with children. I used to have panic attacks just being close to other babies when I was pregnant, thinking what the hell had I done. But once I had my one it all came naturally.

Go for it!

I've got two friends in stable long term relationships who definitely do not want children. They do however love spending time with them so together they lead a Brownies and a Girl Guide pack. Could you do some volunteering with children? It's great to volunteer with the homeless or elderly too but if you want to work on those children curled up by the fire after a long day's hike it's probably a good calling to persue!

My concern would be the hours your DP works. My husband really wanted children so I had them for him. He does try to spend as much time as possible at home, but his job unavoidably takes him away from home for days at a time. I resent it. I resent the effect this has on my availability to work and the fact his career has gone forward where mine has not.
If your DP is not willing to cut his hours drastically you WILL resent it. Unless he is willing to do this I would not have children.

Incidentally I am absolutely not saying your AS affect your ability to parent, just that the AS might make it harder to recognise your own feelings on the matter.

There are very few practical, logical reasons in favour of having kids. It is always disruptive, to some extent. You have kids because you can't not. On a deeper, emotional level, having a child has been the most fulfilling thing I've ever done.

Lots of people have an idealised view of life with a child, before they actually have one. You can't really know what it's like until you have one, so don't beat yourself up for maybe having unrealistic ideas. I agree that other peoples children don't give you a completely accurate view - you'd get an idea of what's involved in looking after them, but without the emotional attachment to that child it would seem just like hard work, with no positives.

I think if you go ahead, it must be with the agreement that your dh will pull his weight - that it's not just your baby, but his too. Without that agreement, you may be resentful at having all the responsibility, while his life carries on unchanged.

I think if I was you, I would probably end up having just the one. It's quite easy to have one child and still maintain a good career and your own interests, but that is assuming your child doesn't have any SN which would obviously change things a great deal.

I guess it comes down to whether you want one more than you don't, and only you can really answer that.

When you say your family are not emotionally demonstrative but in private you are with dp I wonder what's going on with the Aspergers thing? Aspergers is frequently misdiagnosed as a personality disorder - brought about by dysfunctional relationships with parents. If you didn't have AS, and this was the case, would you still want to have children? I ask this because people with disabilities are often made to feel they shouldn't have children because they are somehow defective and will pass it on and you seem to be using it as a reason too.

Having children is not a pure selfless loving act for the sake of giving life to another being etc. The double edged sword is that it's good for us too. I learned more about myself when I had children than at any time in my life. I learned new things I gained so much more than I am giving.

What you say about your relationship with dp being lovey-dovey sounds like the perfect environment in which to bring up children.

The biggest sacrifice I feel you will have to make will be that you will have to learn how to walk slowly sometimes and perhaps think a little less deeply and to get used to not being in control of everything.

Anna I know very much how you feel.

I am an academic and worked insanely hard to get where I am now - watched other people drop by the wayside, worked 7 day weeks for years, made myself ill with work, but it was all worth it because I have a career I love. Knew I didn't want children, well, was pretty sure, and DP the same.

Then after 30 things started to change, gradually. I got a permanent position, which in my field is a major challenge to achieve, settled a bit, looked around, and realised that I don't think my career can be everything. I absolutely define myself as a scholar but I think that when I am 50 I won't only want to have published and taught. I want something else too.

DP and I have tentatively decided to start ttc next year. Looking around me, I can see other women academics managing at least two children and I think I can do the same. They use full-time nursery and one of them picks her DC up around 3.30, puts them to bed around 6.30-7, then works till midnight to make up the hours. Another is super organised and for now, won't take on any more admin commitments etc until her DC are older: she somehow packs all her work into 8.30-5.30, 5 days a week, with occasional nights working too. No weekends.

Right now I work all the hours God sends, but I figure if other people can make time, I can too. What I'd say in your situation is DP needs to be onboard as well. Could he manage his time differently to allow for evening slots and at least one weekend day off? I have tried taking Sundays off recently and it is largely okay, actually.

I'm married to an academic so I do believe the long working hours. On the plus side there is a little flexibility with working hours. Does he travel with work as well? mine does a lot and can be away on a field trip for a few weeks, we also have some friends in academia who can be away for a few months. Parenthood is the best but also the hardest thing I have ever done.Nothing can bring so much joy nor so much stress when things don't go to plan.

I think it would be best to talk about it at length over a few weeks on and off to see how you both feel. Be wary about leaving it too long, I don't want to scare you but it is obvious to me that I am now in the early stages of menopause and have been for a while and I was 40 ish when it started. I must admit to downshifting my career quite considerably when DS was a toddler as I hated the hours and stress and I do miss that sometimes as I now work in a much easier role part time.

Also where is your DH on his career path? past probation? is it a dreaded temp contract on funding or a permanent one? I am suprised someone up thread has said their friend can choose how much teaching they want to do, I think DH will find that amusing when he gets home. DH and I would rather have waited till he had finished probation but I am older than him and we didn't want to risk it.

It is a hard decision but whatever you decide it sounds like you have a decent partnership.

I you won't get a dog because it might distrupt work, prehaps children aren't for you?

I agree with those saying that you should think long-term as well as short-term. I didn't really want kids at the time I had them, but I knew I wanted grandchildren, e.g. the stereotypical big family gathered round the table for Christmas dinner. As much as I love DH, I couldn't imagine it just being him and me when we are 70.

And of course now that we have them, light of my life, apple of my eye, could not imagine life without them, unconditional love, yadda yadda. The early years are enormously hard though.

I also kind of think (and might get flamed for this) that there are 3 things any couple can have, and for sanity they should only pick 2:

1. Her career
2. His career
3. Child(ren)

When I say career, I mean the full-on, all-consuming long hours of a CAREER (which DH has), as opposed to a satisfying and fulfilling JOB (which I have). If I had tried to have my Career as well as the DDs I would have been miserable.

Good luck OP and may you make the decision that is right for you.

I was 36 when i had my first and gave up a hard fought well paid career. you will get as many answers and views on this as grains of sand on the beach. you have to think really long and hard about what you would be prepared to do. for example if you decide you do want a child what lenghts would you go to - ivf icsy, adoption, fostering? yes children are incredibly disruptive, yes they completely change your life and yes, you have absolutely no idea by how much until you have them. make a well thought out decision now, take your time and stick to it. don't live a life of regret either way. similarly don't wait until you are 40 and then make the decision it is way way too late from a fertility and energy point of view. i cannot imagine life without my 3 - everything is made so much better because they are here - slushy but true! Read the posts on here, close the site down and make the decision then stick to it.

hearts I won't flame you but I do disagree with you.

It may be true for some people but I don't think it's evitable.

My mentor for example is a quite successful academic, his wife if anything is even more successful, with a big-time corporate job. They have two DC. They do have money though, which helps a lot.

I know several other couples in my department who both have successful careers and DC. Not all of them have money.

I can see how some careers are not that compatible with parenthood, but I think it's a huge generalisation to think that career automatically equals long hours and stress. Lots of people have perfectly fulfilling careers working 37.5 hours a week.

OP, please dont bother if you are going to bung them in a nursery from day one for hours on end every day

there are already too many poor little souls stuck in that situation

We had dd when we were 36 after many years of it being just me and dh. He was less keen about the prospect of children than I was and I found that the older I got the more I felt the need to have children. I'm not sure how I would have coped if I hadn't got pregnant very quickly. Dd is 1 now and although I found the early months difficult she is fantastic fun and a constant source of delight to us both. I work part-time in a job I really enjoy and for me this is a perfect arrangement. My dh has good working hours and cares for dd one day a week whilst I'm at work and we also have help from grandparents which definitely makes life easier. I know I'm really lucky - dh is a great dad and is keen to play a huge part in bringing up our daughter. We could be better off I'm sure but we are comfortable and have a great family life which for me is the most important thing. It sounds like your lovey dovey relationship with your partner may be a good environment to bring a child into but I agree that he would need to look at those working hours. Having a child is certainly not something I will ever regret.

how strong is your marriage?

For me the hardest part about having children is the feeling of being welded for life to their father .

It's a hard thing to explain and is not a reflection of how I feel about him. I struggle with it.

`(I am more than happy to be welded for life to my children.)

how strong is your marriage?

For me the hardest part about having children is the feeling of being welded for life to their father .

It's a hard thing to explain and is not a reflection of how I feel about him. I struggle with it.

`(I am more than happy to be welded for life to my children.)

*"everytime you do something, think 'could I do this with a child?' It will show you just how much your life will have to change."

I actually don't think this is very good advice for someone who doesn't already have DC. Before I had DS I would have assumed there were loads of things I wouldn't be able to do -- after having him I realised, hang on, life doesn't necessarily have to change as much as I thought.*

Interesting, I had a completely different take on this, thinking about my own weekend, and even today, pretty much everything I did could have been done if we had a child. I've never really thought about it that way, but when I really analyse it based on Mrs. B's suggestion, we already live our life as a 'family' in many ways.

So that was why I thought it was good advice, but I can see your PoV here too DB

Camberwick green. hardly thing children in nursery are pool little souls.

Oh that's interesting Vivi

I had the sense the point of the exercise was to show how much things would have to change so that's interesting you reached a different conclusion.

I think invariably there's a big adjustment period, but if you try to shut out all the opinions about the things you should be doing, and focus on what you want to do, you don't have to change as much as you would think.

I was terrified by how much things would change but it's so much less than I expected.