to wonder about having kids after all?

[Anna1976]

I've always said no to the idea of kids. Too hard, too confronting (I had a miserable and crappy upbringing), I have no idea how to do emotional relationships (I have AS and Dp does to some extent too), i can serve the world better by doing well in my career (scientist and medic), kids would mean cutting back on the career to a point that i wonder if I could ever really have a job again (a job that I want, which indicates my level of selfish self-definition by career)...

I'm 35. DP and I agree that marriage comes before kids, and we are not married.

I'm happy with everything. I've just got a promotion at work.

But the bloody biological clock seems to have started, looking at all the schoolfriends' photos of happy kids in the summer holidays, uni friends' photos of Christmas, etc.

Am I mad?
What do I do now?

I'm a bit like HardCheese -- not a very happy upbringing, immersed myself in other things, could have been quite happy I think never having children at all.

I had pretty much given up on the whole idea and was fine with it, until I got together with DH and we got married (I was 36). We were so, so happy, and suddenly it just seemed like something I really wanted to do. I know it sounds corny, but we just had so much love and happiness flying around, and I really liked the idea of sharing that with a child, and for the first time I felt like I wasn't doomed to be a bad mum just because my parents sucked.

DS is now almost 2 and honestly I am so thankful that we decided to have a child. He's great and while of course sometimes it's hard, it's pretty amazing too.

I actually wonder if you are being a bit too doomish about the impact. I think one child is still very manageable, if there are two of you. And would it really end your career? Is there not a single mum in your career field?

I absolutely agree you shouldn't have kids unless you really want them. But I also think sometimes we talk ourselves out of things because we're afraid of change, or think it will be too hard, and not because we don't actually want them.

OP I have no idea whether you should try for children or not. I can only tell you my experience....

I was never interested in having children and do believe I would have been very happy with no children.Two years ago DH and I started discussing babies and I said we will try when I am 42 then - this is an age I had come up with in my head for when I thought I would be happy to take a break from work but not too old to conceive. After having lots of statistics about age thrown at me by DH and doing a bit of Googling myself I decided we should start ttc in 6 months.

To cut a long tory short, got pregnant as soon as tried, had a mc, was devastated (which surprised me), got pregnant again and have a 16 week old (we are 35).

I cannot imagine doing this alone (so your DP would need to lok at his hours), it's hard and very tiring in the mddle of the night but then she gives me a gummy smile and all is forgiven. I am shockedhow much I love being a Mummy.

I am not sure there is a right/wrong cut/or dry answer. I think in the end maybe you have to make a conscious decision to actively try/just see what happens/go on the pill! ;) but you need to be happy with your decision and not forever think "what if"

Anna, I think you sound like you'd be a lovely mum!

I wonder if you're actually over thinking this all, in that your life has been based around the fact that you've never wanted kids and never will want them. Now things have changed and you're finding that you want kids but almost feel that it's wrong to feel that way, as it goes against the beliefs you've always held?

I think you should tell yourself that it's absolutely fine to have children if you want them, it's not a bad thing for you to do, and then see how you feel then?

I can't remember what the saying is but it's along the lines of you rarely regret the children you do have, but can often regret the ones you don't have.

Also, I'm sure the job situation wouldn't be untenable with good childcare???

Um, well, I knew I wanted children when I couldn't imagine a life without children. I knew that if we didn't do it, I would regret it in a way I would regret nothing else. I would be fine without high flying career, wealth, travelling etc, i was just about wanting the kids. And even with that massive desire to have my two DC, it is still really hard work!! I mean, really hard work. I wouldn't change things for the world [sorry, cliche] but I think what i'm trying to say, badly, is that it's really hard if you really want children. I would worry how a parent would cope if they hadn't had that massive urge to begin with. My career has been completely sacrificed and I am a SAHM with very limited prospects when I return to work - my DH has v.demanding job, so I am very much the primary carer, with no help to speak of. Again, I am happy to do this as I want DH and DC above all else, but it does make me sad that my career has been well and truly scuppered.

In my experience, having DC is only not disastrous for your career IF you have one or more of these in place:

You are happy to use decent childcare, quite alot.
Your DH has a job, and the inclination to really pitch in around the house and with the DC.
You have very helpful grandparents around.
Your employer [or your DH's employer] is sympathetic enough to look kindly upon your situation and allow you a degree of flexibility with your DC.

Hope that helps a bit, sorry, bit rambling . Good luck!

On a completely practical level, why don't you freeze some eggs?
In case you change your mind, or you change your relationship, or you just find yourself feeling differently in five years time, by which time your then current eggs will be a bit worse for wear. It might save you some agony down the track.

By the by, I am v much in Coffeemum's situation. Had a high flying job but really really wanted children. I now have limited career prospects and much less money, but I adore my children and I still stand by my initial impulse to give up everything else if that is what it took (and yeah, that is what it took!)

I think I want to add my voice to those saying don't.

I have one DS, 18 months. I didn't, in the abstract, at all want children, and my career is very, very important to me (it defines me, in a way that probably isn't psychologically healthy, but we have to work with what we've got). DH, on the other hand, was in the position people on here have described - he wanted children, whatever it took and whatever it cost him - and because he felt so strongly about it I agreed to have DS. He's now SAHD and I carried on working full-time, and I'm in the happy position that (so far) it hasn't affected me professionally.

I don't think I would have said yes if we'd been trying to keep two full-time full-on jobs going after DS was born, even with DH completely pulling his weight, because we have no family around to help and so the only way I could have carried on at work in the way I have would have been to have a really good full-time nanny, possibly even a day nanny and a night nanny, and we couldn't have afforded it. (Even if we could, I would have had some qualms about DS being in childcare for 16 hours a day!) Unless one of you has a private income, I imagine that as academics you couldn't afford that kind of childcare either.

In the position you describe, I definitely wouldn't have had children. The volcanic level of rage and resentment I would have felt if my career hit the rocks while DH's sailed on unimpeded would have wrecked our marriage and my relationship with DS. It would have been a disaster on every front.

People do change and that's ok... Says a 36 year old about to start trying for a baby after thinking that it wasn't a path I would go down in my twenties and early thirties!
But it must be a joint decision. Take some of the advice here and really find out your partners views to make that joint decision. I would be worried if its 'your' decision which means that only 'you' will be making both the time and career sacrifices that will be needed to nurture your family, because that when unhealthy resentment may come in further down the line...
Good luck...

We can't answer this for you, of course, but can maybe help you think about it from different angles.

My suggestion is, try to think how you'd feel if you were told you couldn't have children. Also, try to think how you'd feel if you found you were pregnant by accident.

I am 41 with 2 small DC, they are wonderful and I wouldn't change things, but they areg very challenging and I am happy to put my career on hold for their early years.

A word of caution. Most on mumsnet will be overall positive about having children.
A dear friend who was in a similar place to you did decide to go for it.

Her children are 7 and 10 and she deeply regrets having children ( her kids are lovely by the way) .

it's not something that is often discussed . You have to be very close to someone to admit to regretting having children but my friend absolutely regrets her decision. Her husband does too.

I also know people who regret having children - much as they love them.

I think its a good suggestion to think about how you would feel if you suddenly found yourself pregnant now. Not pregnant at some mythical moment when you are married and everything is sorted in your life, but right now. If you want kids, I think you would feel very glad to be pregnant maybe with a tiny bit of sadness that you weren't married first.

I was a lot like you, and at 35 I suddenly thought 'I DO want DC'. I now have 2 DSs. Is it easy? Not at all. Do I regret it? Not one bit. A lot about being a mum drives me a bit batty, TBH. But the overall package - wouldn't give it up for the world. And yes, I have had to do the majority of the work because DH is a workaholic and works insanely long hours. Our weekends are precious and we hold onto them like crazy - avoid booking anything else.

I'm 35 with an 18month old DD.
I didn't really want children. Was sort of talked into it as my partner, now husband, really did. Much as I love DD, I think it was the wrong thing for me. I feel really guilty feeling like this, but there are just so many sacrifices.
For the next few months, everytime you do something, think 'could I do this with a child?' It will show you just how much your life will have to change.
DD is lovely and her giggle is infectious, but if I could turn back time, I wouldn't have had her.
Good luck with your decision.

I am another one who had absolutely no desire for children through my 20s and early 30s. I found the idea of pregnancy and childbirth repulsive and couldn't imagine myself ever raising children. At some point after the age of 30 that gradually changed. I then had to wait for my then partner, now husband, to catch up. We both wanted to be married, so we did that first, when I was 34, and then started trying. I am now turning 36 tomorrow and on my 15 cycle of ttc. I have gone from not wanting kids at all to feeling completely hollow without them and willing to pump myself full of all sort of drugs to get there. That is not to say I don't occasionally have doubts about whether I am cut out to be a mum. I think a lot of people do, particularly when you are given longer to think about it than most because ttc takes a while.

"everytime you do something, think 'could I do this with a child?' It will show you just how much your life will have to change."

Really simple, but excellent advice, MrsB

The career thing isn't just about the practicality. I have /could have the practical support to continue my career at the pre baby intensity/hours - but post DS I no longer want to. I feel partly compromised constantly - my career/work gets in the way of being a mum - but being a mum compromises my career - more that it is no longer something that I love. I know a lot of women who feel like this - I don't regret having DS at all but I would love to get back the love of work I had before (which would mean the hours wouldn't feel so long!)

I have never been in that situation (always knew I wanted to have children), however you do sound incredibly career focused as does your DP, please don't let anyone tell you that you will be able to continue your life as it is. Babies need lots of attention and time. They should be their parents priorities, they should come before your career prospects. So if you go for it be prepared to make some sacrifices.

But it seems to me that a lot of the OP's worries are about the practical side of things -- and there are loads of things you can do to address that.

First of all, just have one child. Obviously it's still a lot of work but it makes life so much easier. And it would probably help with some of your emotional worries, because you can really focus on having a good healthy relationship with just the one DC, giving her lots of time and patience and stuff.

I really relate to a lot of what you write about guiding a child through life btw -- there are so many things I can't wait to show DS!

For your career, start saving money now so you can do what most women do, take as many months of maternity leave as you can and then find a good chlidcare arrangement. Again, with just one kid, you may not have to really cut back on your career.

You said in your OP that part of your devotion to your career is that you can serve the world better this way, rather than by having a family. I would never say that you will care less about your career if you have DC, but as a former workaholic myself, I think it is possible to love your career and love your kids at the same time, and make it work somehow. It may be different than if you never had DC, but that doesn't mean it will be worse.

I also think you should raise the subject with your DP now. If it would be a big shift to start thinking about DC, good to start turning over the idea now and give yourselves plenty of time to decide.

Is there anyone you work with who does have children? You could ask how they managed it and if they had any regrets.

Or ask to spend a day with a friend and their very small child so you get to experience not just the good bits.

"everytime you do something, think 'could I do this with a child?' It will show you just how much your life will have to change."

I actually don't think this is very good advice for someone who doesn't already have DC. Before I had DS I would have assumed there were loads of things I wouldn't be able to do -- after having him I realised, hang on, life doesn't necessarily have to change as much as I thought.

DH and I still travel, have nights out, do lots of fun things on our own. I still have all my pre-baby friends. I'm still finishing my Phd and getting work.

I didn't go to baby groups, I spent maternity leave going for nice long walks, to museums, meeting with friends -- stuff I wanted to do. I kept reading about everything in my field so I didn't feel like I lost traction.

Yes, it was hard, there were some unbelievably hard times. But things got easier when I realised that I was putting a lot of limitations on myself and assuming I couldn't do things, rather than trying to find a way to make things work.

MrsB I'm really sorry about your experience, but I think there's a big difference between knowing you don't want DC and having them anyway, and what the OP is talking about, which is thinking she might actually want them.

'Or ask to spend a day with a friend and their very small child so you get to experience not just the good bits.'

But it's totally different when it's someone else's child.

I'm a mum and I still don't really like other people's DC. Mine is great though

My DP is an academic, logical and abstract and all the rest, but a great father. He has always wanted children though.

useless info

I think if you are aware of your non-tactile family and you want it to be different for your potential children, you do have some sort of desire to nurture a squashy wee person.

completely agree with dreamingbohemian's last two posts - spending a day with someone else's kids will tell you nothing and could put you off. Spending time with your own kids is completely different - a lot easier.

Also disagree with spending the next few months asking yourself in different situations if you could do this with a child. The answer will probably be no. The reality is as dreamingbohemian says you probably can.

Someone asked earlier if anyone worked with DC. I did. I went back when he was two and a half. Had a great time with him but was glad to get back to work. Got the first job I applied for in the line of work I'd been in before getting pregnant. I was a single mum by that time too. My mum looked after him for a few days a week though otherwise I'd never have gone back. He was in nursery two days a week. I had to work some evenings and weekends when he was in bed. It was hard but not that hard. Glad I've just the one though.

Have you considered the AS is making this a harder decision to make, cos whilst you might be feeling stuff it's harder to work out what you actually feel?

Have you thought of posting this on the parents with disabilities board?