Why do lots of people seem to try their hardest to make 'outspoken' people happy?

[AgentZigzag]

AIBU to suspect everyone knows someone 'outspoken'.

Those people who complain about everything, have to pass critical judgements on everybody, nothing's ever right for them, and worst of all they pride themselves on calling a spade a spade (but don't like it back).

I've noticed the people around them though seem to bend over backwards not to upset them, (although it's futile because they're never satisfied with anything) it's like they can't bear the thought of catching the difficult persons negative attention because this is much worse than telling them they're out of order.

Maybe it's something to do with wanting the persons approval?

Or is this what you do if you want the quiet life?

It can take a while to realise what's going on, but after several rounds of the same old same old you can't help but notice it's them and not you. Then you feel stupid playing along for so long before plucking up the courage to confront them.

Took me 6 years with my colleague. I took the plunge and tackled her on the way she spoke to me and now I only talk to her about work. Our other colleagues have followed my lead and now we have a calm, mature atmosphere in the office barring occasional outbursts which are ignored.

Another thing that "outspoken" people seem to say a lot is "Oh grow up" when someone disagrees with them, is upset by their poisonous comments or pulls them up on their behaviour.

If she is a friend it is easier. It is very tricky thu when she is family.

The one i have in my mind (my cousin) does 2 things that make it very difficult for the rest of us:

a) she is 'outspoken' when an uncle who suffers from heart condition is there. So we have to agree with whatever she says because we don't want to upset him.

b) when she knows we 've had enough and she might lose the game she starts shit stirring and spreading lies. That way she splits groups and she directs the attention and anger somewhere else. Then she starts again. She is exhausting.

To add to Hexagonal's 'Grow up', another phrase is 'i'm saying this for your own good' / 'trying to help you'

Another thing that "outspoken" people seem to say a lot is "Oh grow up" when someone disagrees with them, is upset by their poisonous comments or pulls them up on their behaviour.

Or you are accused of doing/being exactly what they are busy pulling on you.

I think most people approach a situation with a wish to collaborate and compromise, these people play on that, so they win lots of one-off interactions and get quite a way winning any one longer relationship until the other person stops putting up with it.

Also, as this is their whole thing they spend far more time thinking about how to play the next hand.

Over the years I've come to the conclusion that the best approach is, the minute they start messing you around you just stop collaborating/interacting etc with them, and just walk away - there is no point in trying to play their game.

I've posted about my PILs doing this.

DH grew being told that his mother would have a mental breakdown if he (or his siblings) ever upset her and that it would be his (or their) fault.

The entire family would have you believe that MIL is depressed and delicate, dedicated to her family and just a bit thoughtless and silly, doesn't think before she speaks.

What she actually is is selfish, manipulative, angry, passive-aggressive, jealous, controlling and downright bloody spiteful. She likes to be the centre of attention and if she feels her limelight is being stolen or someone is not giving her the attention she deserves then all hell breaks loose. She cries and weeps and makes everyone feel guilty while FIL rings up to scold the offender like a naughty child or shout them down if they dare to argue their point.

They have been like this for years and I fitted right in OP, I took my place and was afraid to upset her. I married DH very quickly and I didn't want to rock the boat with the rest of the family. I let her insult, upset and manipulate me for years before I finally spoke out.

Now I have no contact with PILS and it's a big relief to me. But the rest of the family are not happy about it and even though she did and said some of the worst things possible, I'm the one who gets the blame.

I was reading a book called Toxic Parents (and have the follow-up, Toxic In-Laws being delivered soon) and it made a lot of sense. The section that applies to us is the one on Controlling Parents and some of the families discussed in the book sound terrible.

One poor man won a a Christmas holiday for him and his girlfriend and his mother went into meltdown. But while she was the one who wept quietly and said she would be okay, even though Christmas was ruined and she wasn't going to cook a dinner, it was his siblings who got angry and told him that he had ruined what could be her last Christmas. I think she was 56 and in good health, so not on her last legs or anything.

The book describes how a controller wants to have things their own way but also thrives on the chaos that takes place if anyone ever confronts or stands up to them.

While people are afraid to stand up to them, they are ruling the roost and getting their own way. When they are not getting what they want, or someone challenges them, they have the opportunity to get upset and cause a fuss (often by crying and saying "I don't want to make a fuss") and everyone else flaps around them like headless chickens, trying to make them feel better and putting the other person in their place.

It says partners and siblings will often gang up on a child or sibling who has upset the controller, partly for a quiet life and partly because they don't want to question their own behaviour and look at why they are happy to let the controller treat them badly.

A controller will say something nasty just to test the waters, to see if anyone will challenge them or not. If nobody does, they are happy knowing they are still on top, if someone does say something they can enjoy being the centre of a drama no matter what the resolution may be.

And I think that's right. My MIL hasn't gotten exactly what she wanted with me, she has been challenged on her behaviour and she doesn't see me or our DS anymore. But she does get to talk about me with the rest of the family and be comforted by them because I am being so awful and won't accept her apology and didn't use Christmas as a turning point. Which is still, according to the book, a satisfactory outcome to the chaos she has caused. She can be upset and I can get the blame, even though her own actions were the reason for the conflict, and she can use their feeling sorry for her to manipulate them.

NoOnesGoingToEatYourEyes, I think you might be my cousin's wife, you've described my outspoken Aunt so well, she could not get away with it without her DH's enabling.

I would say that relationships within that/my family really boil down to power games and power play. Problems are arising because the younger generation (us) now have children of our own and put their needs before the controlling middle aged family members' demands.

NoOnesGoingToEatYourEyes, is your MIL my mother??

I grew up with my mum telling me constantly that one day she would die of a heart attack and it would all be my fault, and was constantly shouted down. I totally identified with your description of your MIL, right down to the weeping and then my father fighting her corner for her. Good on you for sticking up for yourself!

By the way, that apology I won't accept has only taken place in MILs head. The closest she has ever come to actually apologising is to say "I'm sorry you are upset about whatever it is you think I did, but you are wrong because I haven't done anything."

Because it makes them shut up I suppose.

Haha NoOnesGoingToEatYourEyes that is another thing my mum would say! It's infuriating!

Wow hex I've just been through exactly what you've been through with bitchy person in group of friends and nobody willing to tell her where to get off. I do not understand when people will not make a stand against bitchiness and rudeness. If more people reacted like you did then the individual would have to reevaluate their own behaviour but instead everybody puts up and shuts up to keep the peace. Frankly at our age I find it disappointing that we've still got these sort of schoolyard situations coming up. We should have matured! Disillusioned with human behaviour but cheered up by this thread where I see it's not just me.

I think "outspoken people" isn't one homogeneous group any more than "quiet people" is.
On the whole I like people who tell me if I have upset them immediately rather than sulking about it for weeks or bearing a grudge. I like people who get angry if they are angry and who are bouncy when happy. This is much better than being a passive aggressive simmerer and I find that it's the latter I tend to tiptoe around as I find it hard to know when I have upset them and often don't understand what exactly they are upset about because they won't tell me.

Other "outspoken" people are just selfish, egotistical bullies who have little empathy and no interest in other people's opinions. I don't like them, but not all outspoken people are like that.

hattymattie sorry to hear you've been through similar with friends. It's horrible isn't it. Like you say, if more people pulled them up on their behaviour they would perhaps think about how they come across and try to make changes but whilst people let them get away with it they'll just continue to act as they do.

I too feel very disillusioned with human behaviour, that's a really good way of expressing how I feel, lol.