Why do lots of people seem to try their hardest to make 'outspoken' people happy?

[AgentZigzag]

AIBU to suspect everyone knows someone 'outspoken'.

Those people who complain about everything, have to pass critical judgements on everybody, nothing's ever right for them, and worst of all they pride themselves on calling a spade a spade (but don't like it back).

I've noticed the people around them though seem to bend over backwards not to upset them, (although it's futile because they're never satisfied with anything) it's like they can't bear the thought of catching the difficult persons negative attention because this is much worse than telling them they're out of order.

Maybe it's something to do with wanting the persons approval?

Or is this what you do if you want the quiet life?

Agentzigzag I was thinking exactly the same thing this morning.

"Oh you know what they are like" is used to excuse adult tantrums. In my case, I think I am shocked by awful behaviour and find it difficult to react and so keep a few standard phrases handy.

Difficult/outspoken people never understand that their behaviour is the problem. It is futile to change antisocial and selfish people; you can only change how you react to them.

OP you are absolutely right!! I thought I was the only one who bends over backwards when it comes to someone outspoken, it's comforting to know others do it as well.
I pretty much avoid people like that at home, but unfortunately cannot do the same at work. Luckily I only have 5 weeks left until ML, after that I shall never return to that awful place. My boss is exactly like you describe in your OP.

Minimisshchief, I can see where you're coming from. I think the difference is "outspoken" people, like my sister, will say things like "you're so inconsiderate" (my sister's favourite phrase), "you're such a bitch," "you're this and you're that" - basically the whole world is at fault and needs to be told what they "are." There's a big difference between that sort of childish name calling and telling someone that you're not willing to engage with them any more. Calm, rational explanation is world away from tantrumming and sulking.

It's just easier, so is a rational choice. Why would you choose to be their therapist when they want don't one? That's going to be a thankless task. 'Change the things you can, accept the things you can't and have the wisdom to know the difference'. Backing away does make more sense than putting effort into pacifying but if contact is unavoidable, maybe people do what's easiest for them.

I've long been amazed by a similar phenomenon in work situations. People who are overconfident and boastful are rarely if ever challenged and are generally actually believed. The reason is it is easier to go along with them than challenge them, you'd have to have a really solid reason for challenging and habit becomes reality.

Arriving new into such a situation it can be obvious that someone is just an arrogant twit who likes the sound of their own voice and surprising that everyone seems to go along with their own assessment of themselves. However, if there has been no major evidence to the contrary, many people genuinely do go along with it - perhaps they equate confidence with ability - and the habit of pacification, agreeing superfically to keep things running smoothly, has a real effect, so the person does gain more status, attention and likelihood of promotion.

I kind of understand the "wanting a quiet life" part of pacifying or going along with someone who is like this, however after a while you do feel a bit of a martyr.

I have known many people like this and have found that things only come to a head eventually and you either need to cut them out of your life or just exhaust yourself in "giving back" what they give to you, until, if ever, they get back in their fucking box. I usually just do the former, though. People rarely change.

'don't want'.

Im outspoken but nothing like you describe in your OP.

We arent all the same. I say it as I see it, I'm not really emphatic but that's my personality disorder, that does change when it comes to children though and those who suffer from emotional abuse and domestic violence.

I've no time for people who do nothing to help themselves and moan about a predicament they could change if they wanted to.

I think that sometimes you have to pander to the outspoken person so as not to upset other people around them/you - it's for their sake, not the outspoken person's sake, as such.

The panderer finds gentle rebukes hard to swallow too, or I do anyway - I try my best to be subtle with the pandering and to hear a well-meant (or well-aimed), "You shouldn't run around them/let them push you around/give them their own way all the time... blah blah blah"... it's makes it all much more stressful. :(

If people are 'bright' enough to notice the pandering, they should trust the person pandering is doing what's right for them and have the wit to keep quiet if they care for the panderer at all...

I'd go a step further to say that the habit of agreeing / pacifying actually convinces the person doing it that they should be doing it - in the same way that smiling can make you feel happy.

The acceptance of bad behaviour as 'oh, that's just x being x' is also widepread and detrimental, especially when the unreasonableness is not obvious to others, so they think x is right, perpetuate it further, and treat you as whatever x says you are.

Mmmmm...I would say I'm one of these people, and my husband too. Not suffering fools gladly is exactly how I'd describe him.

On the other hand, he's kind, patient and will put up with a lot of bullshit until he calls people on it. When it comes to me and his family, he will not tolerate any kind of bollocks from anyone. He's a Scorpio. The sting in his tail hurts like nothing else but he doesn't really use it until he has to.

I am always the first person to call someone out on something - a dodgy joke, questionable views etc. I challenge people all the time. I'm really outspoken. I get passionate, really passionate about things and hardly back down if it's important. There's someone at work who I adore, but we have VERY different moral views on certain things. We have had stand up rows before, because we're both so passionate about whatever we're arguing about. But he's like me - he's not afraid to wade in with all guns blazing.

But. I have zero interest in upsetting someone. I have no interest in manipulating a group of friends or work colleagues. I want people to like me, I care about the people I know. I would never, ever employ the full intensity of my arguing skills if I see that person can't deal with it, doesn't like confrontation or whatever. I don't actually want to upset anyone or feel like I am imposing my views on anyone.

It's simply that - if I hear someone I either disagree with intellectually, morally, ethically etc, my mouth is open before I even know it. The difference though, I think, between people like me and my husband, and the manipulators being discussed on this thread, is we're not afraid of being challenged either. I actively love a good debate and most of the time - maybe to some people it looks like a row but actually, I'm thoroughly enjoying the heated discussion. But it only works if the other person feels the same. I would never, ever, ever, carry on if I saw the other person was getting upset or felt anything remotely like being brow-beaten or god forbid, bullied. I would hate that and feel so terrible.

When I read the OP I immediately thought of my sister. Her 'role' in the family always seemed to be the one in the right, and tears, tantrums and speaking horrible, horrible words to me people were her form of expression. Oh, also cold indifference but that's not what the OP is about.

I've no idea how she goes about things now as there was a 'last straw'
situation (I'd caused one injury too many) ten years ago, and now I only have to see her at the very occasional family event, where she ignores me and I let her.

She's always prided herself for speaking her mind, and claimed it was unhealthy to bottle things up. Has no compunction with confronting anyone she thinks has crossed her, and will argue and shout with anyone, even in a public place and in front of her children.

The worst thing I did was to refuse to engage on the last occasion, which enraged her even further. I find it very telling that, the first time I didn't try to defend myself or argue back, just said 'I'm sorry you feel that way' or something similar, she decided to completely cut me out of her life.

I can only assume she realised I would no longer be a whipping-boy and therefore was of no use or interest to her.

I do like the technique someone mentioned, of telling the person if they can't be civil you don't want to engage with them - wish I 'd had the wherewithal at the time.

my brother scores highly on being outspoken and throwing adult tantrums, but it's generally to 'persuade' the family and others to do what he wants all the time. My mother would do anything to accommodate his needs because they were important. For instance, we had to have Christmas at his home because it was unfair to uproot his children from their house at Christmas and if we chose not to go then we were depriving his children of seeing their cousins. When anyone tried to point out the double standard he just huffed, blowed and shouted and said he wanted the best for his children.

YANBU and I know exactly what you mean. IME some of the people who are most likely to go around passing harsh and critical judgement on everyone and everything are also the same people who manage to feel victimised and bullied and are always imgining slights and snubs by others -far more easily than most well-balanced people do. Often I find that the very people who insist they have low self esteem or are easily walked over are among the most stroppy confrontational assertive people I know! They play out an endless script in their heads where everyone is out to do them down and they need to be stand up for themselves - it must be exhausting living with that level of negativity every day.

WWWY Your sister sounds priceless - I CANNOT STAND people like that. I am perhaps the opposite extreme and I avoid unpleasant confrontation, sometimes perhaps to my own detriment, but I'd rather be like me than like her!

These people have learned they get a disproportionate amount of benefit from this behaviour ( squeaky wheel etc) and there is very seldom a negative result for them, so they carry on.

I think people who are outspoken by nature can be great to be around, you know where you stand etc etc. I have a very outspoken friend who I adore because although she says what she thinks, she would NEVER deliberately upset someone in a million years. She opens her mouth and frequently says something that makes me die inside but she is also quite happy to be told to shut up.

The ones I have a problem with are the people who seem to thrive on telling people how outspoken they are, how they don't suffer fools etc, almost as a preemptive strike before they say something shitty. Like it excuses their rudeness or something.

She is unique, true, Fell.
She tried to replace me with my SIL, but, SIL not having been brought up in her shadow and having no reason to fall in with it once the shenanighans reached a head, didn't get very far.
And yes, she's always looking out for herself.

It's WWWY, btw.

I notice that it is always people like this who say things like ' I just say what I think, what's wrong with being honest' who are more sensitive regarding their own feelings than anyone else. Sensitivity which only works one way apparently.

I think there are two distinct types of outspoken people we are talking about here. The gregarious, blunt gobshites like Megatrons friend, and the critical, manipulative, negative people.

They share a lack of emotional intelligence and empathy. But its the latter type of folk that are harder to deal with.

That's a very good point, Applemartini

That's so true - and don't forget the long memories tbey're blessed with.
A perceived slight is remembered and stewed over for years, possibly forever, but everyone else is supposed to just swallow the bile heaped on them and move on.

My SiL has the most unbelievable memory, shotgun. She remembers word for word conversations held years ago. Funny its only ever the conversations which she perceives paint her in a favourable light. I can only conclude that she devotes time and mental energy to ruminating on these slights, and I can only feel sorry for her for that.

I don't bend over to make these people happy but it has ruined relationships with people. I had a very good friend at uni who was like this, I questioned it and our friendship was never the same again. In facvt we are no longer in contact. She just latched onto someone who put up with it and went on and on about how great she was.

I questioned it this Xmas over one teeny tiny thing with FIL who had spent the last four days being insufferable. He and MIL were obviously v upset and spent the next couple of hours making snipy comments at me until we left. I was no 1 DIL. I wondering what will happen next time....

Excellent OP, agent

I understand what your saying as my sister is like this. She is right, her point is put across in a monotone -don't argue with me way - and when my brother people do stand up to her she plays the hurt and insulted party.

Surprisingly though when I've posted about her here before people have told me to 'grow up and stop arguing with her'. It's amazing how these people manage to do this. Make out you are the one in the wrong when everyone else is thinking the same as you but won't speak out.

Sadly though my closest friends DC's are rather like this.

Bumblequeen Sun 15-Jan-12 00:51:50
I totally agree with you!

Even a child who is more outspoken than their sibling receives more attention. A case of whoever shouts the loudest is the most heard.

Thats often how I describe it with my friends DC's to DS. I tell him they may loudly announce all his shortcommings but it's in an attempt to make him look bad because they know deep down their own behaviour is unaccapetable. I've always said if he quietly gets on with what he was doing then it wouldn't affect him.