to think this girl should be suspended for punching dd in the face?

[Crazybit]

dd in year 7 (aged 11) was in a corridor at school today, lots of pushing going on apparantly, dd was pushed into a girl, the girl turned round and punched her in the face.

The other girl had the upper school t shirt on so was at least in year 10 (minimum age 14) and ran off after it happened.

Thre girl has not been identified yet, dd did not know who she was nor did her friends but the school are going to attempt to find out who it was..by descriptions/pictures.

I don't know what the procedure is for this type of thing but what kind of consequences are likely/should their be?

dd has got bruising and headache but I'm quite worried about the psychological impact too as she was already suffering from anxiety related to a violent incident a few months ago.

Any advice on how I should deal with this? Don't want to baby her but also don't want to be unsupportive...also, I don't know what the school are going to do but AIU to push for suspension..or even to get the police involved?

cautions are spent at once if simple/inside 3 months if conditional, so employability wouldn't be affected if they took that route.

I was under the impression that cautions are never "spent" wrt CRB checks. Am I wrong? A lot of jobs & voluntary roles require CRB, and regardless of codes otherwise, most employers are highly prejudiced against anything but a clear CRB.

Correct, never "spent" and most employers will not accept someone without a clear CRB.

Exactly, the range of jobs/volunteer activites that require a CRB check are huge and seemingly ever expanding. Any conviction could impact on her 30 years hence.

Also as a minor she isn't eligible for a caution only a formal/final warning or prosecution, followed by a Referral order.

This is speculation as I assume school haven't identified the perpetrator or heard her side of the story.

Trois, I agree with Amberleaf. Accommodated children, IME, are excluded much easier and for longer than those not accommodated. This experience comes from many years of working in residential care and now in fostercare.

It would seem to be related to the expectation that there is always 'someone at home' for the child!!

Just to update:

There have been a couple of witnesses that came forward but they only gave descriptions as they did not know the girl. The school have apparantly checked what c;asses where down there and they where all lower school, dd tihnks this girl may have come out of the toilet.

I waited for school to contact me yesterday but nothing, so tried ringing around 3, could not get through and dd said HOY asked her if she's been keeping an eye out to ID her but that's all she heard. Today she heard nothing and I have been in antenatal clinic or hospital all day so not been able to contact school but will be chasing it up tomorrow. It sounds as though they have not moved forward though. Will update if there is any progress.

Much though it pains me to say it, I teach in a school where the next step would depend on the GCSE prospects of the year 11 assailant.

I think in a sensible world, you've reached the point where you could quite reasonably contact the police & ask to press charges for assault, as the school haven't dealt effectively with the incident.

I would expect a decent pastoral team to be cross-checking timetables & registers & jolly well finding out who was responsible, questioning & sanctioning them.

In reality though, you still have to face the fact that you just don't have enough proof for a criminal prosecution of the other child - not even a confirmed ID. (Have they checked CCTV?)

I'd ask for a meeting with the HT, & write to the Governors also.

Thanks for the reply Raven.

I have lost all confidence in the Head of Year. I rung him on Wednesday to see if any progress..no...he didn't even know which corrodor it had happened, said it was one which was a thoroughfare through the school, but dd insists it is a dead end one. He said dds statement wasn't very clear...so I sat down with dd, spent over an hour finding out exact details from her point of view, even a diagram of where she was stood and which way the girl had come from so they could try and work out if it had been a classroom or the toilet. When she took it to him he told her 'your mum keeps changing the story'. I find that comment very inappropriate and I bloody well don't, I said to him on the phone that dd said she doesn't know if the girl came from the toilet or a classroom, but he told her I said she came out the toilet.

Anyway, yesterday, dd and another girl think they have ID'd the girl and got a boy to take a picture of her on a phone (I know, I know..) and so student services are now aware of who dd thinks it is.

And so, will give it a few days next week and see what happens I suppose..I really do not think the HOY is taking it very seriously though, I may ask for someone else to deal with it or write to the headteacher outlining my concerns.

P.s, dd seems to think they do not have CCTV, I've not asked the HOY yet.

Crazybit - what you have just written is exactly why I would have put this in writing, addressed to the HT, in the first place and why I would have contacted the school and said DD would be staying at home until they confirmed what action had been taken and steps were being taken to prevent it happening again. There would have been an impact then on their attendance figures and they couldn't have explained it away.

I'm astonished at the attitude of the HOY. I would complain about him too, tbh. In writing to the HT. This has gone on too long without action from the school.

Write to the HT with copy to the governors and the LEA. I would phone the LEA in those circumstances, but they would probably tell me they can't do anything until I follow the procedure or something, but there would have been a mark in their mind, iyswim.

Get the letter in on Monday. Good luck.

HOY will only act on this sort of thing if the HT takes it seriously. For the HT to take it seriously it needs to be put in writing. Now OP you will have to say that you are extremely disappointed so little has happened in response to a physical assault upon your daughter and say that you expect the school to deal with it, to outline the steps to prevent it in the future, and state clearly what its expectations are in relation to behaviour.

She THINKS she knows who it was?

What if she is wrong?

I'd leave it unless she is sure.

My DS2 who has Asperger's was held down and kicked in the balls on his 4th day in Y7. I was was distraught - the school acted immediately and appropriately. If they hadn't I would have had no hesitation in calling the police.

There would have been an impact then on their attendance figures and they couldn't have explained it away.

It would go down as truant school refuser.

How big is this school? because in mine, of 1200 pupils, which I suppose is fairly small, every child virtually knows every other pupil, right through from Y7-6th form.

There is usually something the staff refer to as "the mugshot book" - the school photographer produces it.

In all honesty, if your daughter does ID someone who subsequently denies it, and there is no record on CCTV (which I find very difficult to believe) and there is an ever changing story about what happened - exactly how is punishment expected to be attributed? Time has gone past for this to be remedied. Let it go.

It may go down as school refuser but the refusal would be backed up by written evidence and if it was marked as unauthorised absence I personally would have no hesitation in sending copies, etc to the EWC and the LA noting that the school had failed to respond to concerns.

What did the witnesses see?

dd and another girl think they have ID'd the girl and got a boy to take a picture of her on a phone

that is the sort of shit that ends up on FB with all sorts of unfounded accusations.

I agree there probably isn't real evidence to take action about the girl. There is however no reason why the school hasn't confirmed what steps are being taken to ensure the op's daughter will be kept safe in future. There is also no reason why the HOY has not returned telephoned calls or called the OP in for a meeting to discuss ways in which her daughter can be supported. All sounds rather lacking to me and if that was the response I got from a school I would be deeply disappointed and kicking up a stink whether the teachers liked it or not. It used to be called high expectations and decent standards of care. When I was at school the whole school would have known who had done it and there would have been no wriggling out of it. The girl would have been expelled by now.

The OP said 1800 pupils at this school! Nuff said! This has always been a recipe for problems as pupils cannot be identified and are therefore unnaccountable. There has been evidence published on this correlation. Yet "Labour" was committed to building bigger schools even after this research was published a few years ago, flying in the face of all reason. Mad.

Sorry I cannot add more to help on the specifics of the problem, except to say the general view of schools turning a blind eye to problems is depressing.

p.s. my secondary school was 500 pupils and I thought that was large enough!

My god how complacent have you been, I'd be raging, I'd not have let this lie at all.

Are the school alsotaking action about the shoving and pushing? What if your DD had of knocked her flying and she had sustained a head injury? It doesn't sound as though they were very aware of what they were doing or who they might of injured.

Unless your DD is sure of who it is, pictures should not be being taken, if at all. It sounds as though the school needs to look at their whole behavioural policy.

OP don't listen to this talk of "not enough evidence". There's plenty of evidence to move things forward. It might not be enough yet to convict in a criminal trial, but there is plenty to be moving forward.

A photo of a suspect is a very good lead. From your initial postings it sounds like there were actually quite a few witnesses (your DD's friends), so there's room for corroboration (or contradiction). I think it's shocking the school let things lie until now, but I really think you should call or go in on Monday and demand more proactive steps are now taken.

I can't imagine being forced to go every day into an environment in which one of a limited number of people had deliberately turned around and punched me, but the people with power didn't think it worth taking any steps to apprehend that person. I wouldn't stay in a job where that was true, and I would not want to send my children to a school that thought it appropriate. I would possibly start threatening outside action at this point (police, MP, papers, something). They really don't seem to be treating this seriously enough.

All the best OP. It must be very frustrating. I hope your DD is resilient and not permanently hurt by all this.